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Comment by otikik | Hacker News Reader

> undocumented immigrants which function as disposable citizens

I am afraid that is not a problem exclusive to the United States. Perhaps it is more prevalent there, I don't have the numbers, but it also happens in Europe. What we don't usually have is a "backdoor" for slavery in the form of penal labor enshrined in our Constitutions.

> I do not think there is an ethical way to challenge the American economy.

Supporting a negligent leader so that he gets elected can undermine it.

Not that I think that is ethical, either. But it is more "efficient", in terms of resources spent.

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> What we don't usually have is a "backdoor" for slavery in the form of penal labor enshrined in our Constitutions.

I don't know if you meant to exclude this using the word "usually", but Germany has a backdoor for slavery in the form of penal labor enshrined in its constitution [1]. And it's not just enshrined in the constitution, it is actually active law [2].

[1] In the German constitution, Article 12 (3), it says:

> Zwangsarbeit ist nur bei einer gerichtlich angeordneten Freiheitsentziehung zulässig.

[2] In the StVollzG, Section 41 (1), it says:

> Der Gefangene ist verpflichtet, eine ihm zugewiesene, seinen körperlichen Fähigkeiten angemessene Arbeit, arbeitstherapeutische oder sonstige Beschäftigung auszuüben, zu deren Verrichtung er auf Grund seines körperlichen Zustandes in der Lage ist.

I meant “most European countries don’t”. I confess I didn’t know about Germany in particular.

Less than 0.0001% of economic output in the USA is performed by penal labor, mostly by non-incarcerated people (e.g. court mandated community service such as road cleanup as penalty for traffic violations).

The people who are offended by the practice of prison labor will never let that issue go, even though it’s opt-in — you have to commit felonies in order to go to prison.

Or people who have incentives to put you in prison will find the felonies for you

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