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Comment by scuff3d | Hacker News Reader

I'm a straight white dude living in the United States. I'm as much part of the "majority" as one could possibly be, and this sentiment always confounds me.

Never once in my 20+ years working for corporations and government contractors, including companies with very strong DEI programs, have I ever felt excluded or marginalized. And I've never witnessed "reverse racism" (which is a totally absurd name for what would just be racism).

What I have experienced, several times, is people who look like me thinking I'm one of the boys, and flat out telling me they don't hire woman because they "cause too much drama", or only hire women they want to have sex with. And those are just two examples of dozens. Thanksfully those situations have plummeted over the years.

You flat out will not get an equitable work environment if you don't place a focus on it.

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Exactly in the same boat here. At an old job I once had one of the most useless people in the office, in a 1-1 meeting, tell me that the black people in the office were only being hired for DEI/nepotism (he didn't say "black people"). He felt comfortable saying this to me because I look like him, which means that other folks in the office obviously share his mentality.

Wait till you get old, as everyone will. Also, because you personally haven’t experienced something yet is not that relevant.

Remember the story about enforced diversity statements at universities, and the ex-soviet math teacher warning against them? I do and it was discussed here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38985343

YMMV: I haven’t seen age discrimination from people who seriously supported DEI: quite the opposite, they are generally summed up as “hire people who can do the job” which doesn’t exclude age.

I have seen it from the same types of people who oppose DEI: born affluent, convinced that anyone who can’t retire at 45 chose not to, etc.

Not my experience, but don’t think it could be definite either way. Therefore not a useful statement.

If only there was some sort of policy encouraging diversity that could tackle ageism in hiring practices.

EOE and anti ageism laws have existed for decades. How has that worked out?

Look at Agile, a movement that took a good idea and twisted it into the opposite.

The solution to dead laws is remove any chance of them being enforced? The solution to ageism is to make policies that attempt to enforce the laws and human rights illegal? Really? Thankfully nobody has made it illegal to do Agile correctly rather than following the tautological Official Agile Process(tm).

I restarted my career in my 30s. I'm literally working in a field right now where people almost half my age are at the same level I am, and people my age or younger are my boss. Have never had a problem all through the career transition.

I'm not just saying me personally. I'm saying I have never even heard a creditable case of "reverse discrimination" in all my years, across all my colleagues.

DEI initiatives seek to put minority groups on the same level as majority groups. So they get the same consideration as everyone else, not more consideration. If that bothers you I don't really know what to tell you.

I, I, I… anecdotes not too helpful.

You don’t hear about the vast majority of discrimination instances because one simply doesn’t get hired. Often on purpose, “no culture fit” can’t be proven.

You have and will experience it, though usually won’t know. Thinking it doesn’t happen is very naïve.

I mean in this case I think it's fairly useful. I'm the exact demographic supposedly impacted by this. I've work for corporations for 20+ years, and watched the culture shift around me. I have friends and colleagues in several different industries. I've been a hiring manager for years. In all that time, literally the only complaints I've heard directly, or from people I know, are people complaining they can't be racist/sexist anymore.

For the record though, I'm 100% sure a white person hasn't gone a job because of their skin color. People suck, and that doesn't stop being true because of skin color or gender. My point is that DEI isn't some grand conspiracy against white people. They're for the most part well meaning policies intended to equalize a playing field that has been fundementally uneven for essentially all of human history.

As mentioned elsewhere, like Agile… it’s not hard to take a good idea and twist it into something bad, in fact happens often. My first reply has examples.

I haven’t seen or heard of any professional rascism, sexism, etc directly with my own senses either—in my whole life. Does that mean they don’t exist? Of course not, but that’s what your statements above sound like. “I haven’t seen => doesn’t exist.”

Of course it exists. Anytime you give people power someone is going to abuse it. That's never going to go away. And the people who are going to abuse that power will do it regardless.

I and people I know have directly observed racism/sexism in our careers, and they have without fail been exactly what DEI initiatives are intended to help prevent.

If someone is using DEI initiatives to abuse their power, that should be dealt with, obviously. But that's not indicative of some conspiracy.

I suspect if I ran down the extremely long laundry list of terrible things done by big corporations you wouldn't argue all corporations should be abolished.

These ideas already existed, as EOE and affirmative action. I support the first, and could support the second in limited cases. As a nationwide movement of unlimited scope and allegiance statements—definitely not. The incentive for favoritism is just too high.

Some for me. I worked at a university ground zero for the ‘woke’ wave and I never once had trouble getting hired or advancing as a straight white guy. These people keep shouting DEI! DEI! And I have no ideas what their fucking problem is.

Gaslighting is their whole thing. Lying about absolutely everything means gradually ordinary people have no idea that facts are true or even what could distinguish a fact from an opinion.

This only stops working when it bumps into Mother Nature's laws rather than man's laws, so that's what you have to focus on with these people. It's brutal but it's entirely impartial, they can tell Fox News that black is white and up is down, but Ma doesn't give a shit, and they hate that. Who does she think she is?

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