Replacing concentrated and highly optimized data center servers with 10-1000X as many old desktop computers idling away at 50-100W or more would be a terrible tradeoff. That would explode the energy usage by orders of magnitude.
A big part of this is the very intense amount of energy producing the silicon wafer from Quartz ingots. While they weigh only a few grams of the total machine they reside in, they have a very sizable impact on total energy.
Funnily enough, for most desktop computers it would take about 15 years of non-stop usage to manage this. That is if powered purely by Lignite/Brown Coal. Anything cleaner, so almost any other energy source, and you have to run them way longer. If purely on solar panels and their manufacturing carbon output, it moves into the centuries range.
I could run my entire rack off of one to two solar panels (decommissioned ones from a power farm might I add). Even that would take a few years to pay for itself (when you factor in the costs of mounting and permitting) and my power company over 80% renewables the last time I checked anyway.
But I assume for way more energy costs? And the manual labour to sort out the different mainboards and make everything interoperable is not free either. But I guess it means lots of opportunity for unconventional low costs projects to scramble things together. Win 10 got another year of support, but I assume next year, even more computers will be avaiable quite cheap or for free.
It’s like when people replace their fridge with a “more efficient” one and wipe out any energy savings with the cost of the new fridge. The difference in energy use will not pay for the new fridge for many years and by then you’ve already replaced the new fridge with another newer “better” one.
you have to go for TCO to justify upgrades. energy alone most of the time doesn't justify replacing old hardware.
factor in space (=rent), age related increase in failure rate (=servicing), computer power needs (=opportunity costs) then together with the energy needs you find good points in time to justify an upgrade.
energy is the least relevant of those.
I suspect that if there was any reasonable amount of economic advantage to using old hardware we would see multiple organizations systematically building large datacenters out of the free hardware.
As a hobbyist, I would love to get my hands on more stuff like this. But I don’t see how it could be used for anything at scale.
Now of course, there are the videos from third world countries where they burn e-waste for gold, so it's not all dandy, but hey. At least we can be a little more conscious.
We're constantly being told to buy new because 1) more energy efficient, 2) better in terms of safety, 3) more environmental friendly, 4) it was built with unhealthy materials, 5) a single component is harder to replace later it with more modern xyz, if you don't replace the entire system the component is part of, 6) costs are increasing, so do it now!
You just need to understand which of the items above is essential for you, impossible to say no to.
There is a reason a lot of this stuff gets handled in the worst way possible, it is the only economics that work so far.
Just like old cruise boats
If this is true and could be done economically, why is nobody doing this right now?
ofcourse this very obviously leads into hollywood-esque tragicomedical cataclysms...
"whats that smell... flips mouse upside down oh damn, my mouse started rotting..."
So consider this: you have a desktop from 2010, it cost 1000 dollars, and operated at 150 watts. You consider getting a laptop today for 500 dollars, and it would have twice the nominal performance and operates at 50 watts. The total amount of embodied carbon for both of those devices has to be less than $1,500 worth of carbon dioxide produced by hydrocarbons. It can't be higher than that. Then you consider the running cost of 150 watts per hour vs 50 watts per hour. Well, back in 2010, 1000 (2010) dollars could buy you about 6000 to 9000 kilowatt hours worth of electricity when adjusting for conversion rates and electricity cost in China. Today, 500 dollars can buy about 3500 to 6500 kilowatt hours depending on whether you're buying in the US or China. So in order for the embodied carbon to be paid off for the laptop vs the desktop, let's take 7500 kilowatts for the desktop (a fair midpoint) plus 5000 kilowatts for the laptop, and then divide that by the running difference in power of the two systems: 100 watts. So if you plan on operating the laptop continuously for 13 years, the carbon savings from the efficiency gain of the new device would offset any possible carbon generated from the old device. But the laptop is twice as powerful, and what I gave was an absolute upper bound, and cannot be taken as a good ballpark estimate for how much carbon was actually produced. In the example that I gave, there was a 15-year age difference between the old system and the new system. Depending on how the devices were used, it's reasonable to assume that the right time to have replaced the desktop was back in 2023. Depending on how you use your device, it may never end up paying itself off before using less carbon than the older device. Waste is possible. But if the new device is on longer than 125,000 hours, it will have. It's just a sanity check, but it's good to have an upper bound.
> There’s a doomsday view of climate change that goes like this:
> In a few decades, cataclysmic climate change will decimate civilization. The evidence is all around us—just look at all the heat waves and storms caused by rising global temperatures. Nothing matters more than limiting the rise in temperature.
> Fortunately for all of us, this view is wrong. Although climate change will have serious consequences—particularly for people in the poorest countries—it will not lead to humanity’s demise.
Note that this is from someone who used to be one of the most focal "doomsday viewers", see for example [2] or [3].
[1]: https://www.gatesnotes.com/home/home-page-topic/reader/three...
It is like how you can have a car crash much safer nowadays than ever before, doesn't make car crashes fine or good.
Edit: The only concrete thing I've found in trying to seek through your tedious video links for 10 minutes (idk why I'm spending my time on this but here we are) is the claim that, instead of living healthily, we'd be "constantly dealing with the human and financial crises at a historic scale". That's in line with the text you've quoted: it'll not be the end of all humans but it's a serious consequence for all of us (but not evenly distributed, even if it affects everyone to some degree)
The source again doesn't check out. He says:
- the formula at ~4:21: more people use more energy (I think that stands to reason)
- you hear laughter as he then says "one of these factors [in the formula] will have to get pretty near to zero". It seems exceedingly obvious to me that the next slide being about the people term of the formula is either a joke (and recognised as such by the other listeners) or a mistake about switching the slide too soon. If this is your evidence that Bill Gates wanted to solve climate by eradicating populations, it's going to need to be backed up somewhere else, preferably also by actions as he has put a lot of his money where his mouth is, that shouldn't be hard to find tangible evidence of
- 4:47 mentions how much we could reduce population growth by e.g. offering condoms and pills to people that otherwise don't have access to them, and by offering vaccinations to people that can't afford them (since better survival of parents causes lower birth rate)
As for whether it's hypocritical that he flies jets (to an unspecified amount), idk, if I could offset my emissions to negative a gigaton per year then I'd also feel like I'm doing my bit. It would still be better if he didn't fly, I can see how one calls him a hypocrite for that part and perhaps even agree, but in this context it seems like yet another angle to this argument seemingly designed to hate him no matter what he really says and does