Comment by khuey | Hacker News Reader

Comment by khuey | Hacker News Reader

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The problem is lack of supply of real estate. The proper response here is to build higher density real estate, or to build transit systems that effectively expand the amount of land that can be reached quickly enough to be "in" the city, or both.

San Francisco has failed miserably at both. Development is a four letter word due to the attitudes of many of the existing residents and the legal process that allows anyone to stall and delay anything. BART meets the threshold for tolerable transit, but there's not enough of it, and even if there were fast rapid transit to the peninsula or Marin the residents there are even more opposed to density than San Franciscans. Most of the new development is happening in parts of the East Bay near BART because that's where people are willing to allow it and where transit can get you downtown quickly. If the city were to permit and construct 10 story buildings in the Sunset tomorrow that wouldn't do much to alleviate real estate prices because it takes longer to cross the city on transit than it does to BART in from the good parts of Oakland.

True that. It used to take an hour to get downtown from the Sunset. Finally we gave up and moved to North Oakland. The weather's nicer, and it takes 20 minutes to get to downtown SF.

Yeah, it is inexcusable that the N Judah takes close to an hour to travel 7 miles from the ocean to the Embarcadero, half that in tunnels/dedicated right of way.

Agreed, but part of it is just people having ridiculous expectations for how long it takes to get places by transit. San Francisco still has a lot of "car culture", where people think a 30-minute car ride is great, but a 30-minute bus ride is intolerable. Even a 45-minute train ride isn't that damned bad, if it means that you can run on Ocean Beach every morning, then read a book for 45 minutes and pop into the office. Perspective!

I was also recently surprised by the number of otherwise reasonable friends I have who are just completely unaware of life outside of SOMA and the Mission. I've had a lot of people tell me that they didn't know where the Inner Sunset was located. If they can't walk there in 15 minutes or get there by BART from the Mission stations, it doesn't exist.

Public service announcement to 20-something SF newbs: there is life outside of the Mission and SOMA, kids. The rent's cheaper, too.

I lived in the Sunset for 8 years until last December. I don't miss Muni at all. Mind you, running on the beach in the fog isn't my idea of a good time either.

Agreed, but when you say "half", are you talking distance or time? My experience is that once you're in the tunnel, it's pretty quick. Surface streets are achingly slow.

Distance. The surface streets (and entering/exiting the Market Street subway) are the slow parts.

I live on the N line and it makes 5 stops in a 7 block stretch near my house. It's insanely slow and frustrating.

Muni needs to reduce the number of stops a bus/train makes.

I agree, though I'm not sure if this is a possibility with a single set of tracks.

Aside from bart or muni in the tunnel, I found the fastest public transportation in SF was the various limited or express buses that go from the richmond to downtown. They make very few stops and move quickly.

The thing is, the express buses can easily pass the slower regular bus that make every stop. That wouldn't be possible with the streetcars, which I think would have to be all or nothing.

Outsiders and newcomers tend to see the problem as lack of supply. Those who would have to live next to new skyscrapers (or move to make room) have a bigger variety of opinions.

If you want to control the character of what gets built next to you, buy up that property. It's an abuse of zoning law to zone to keep your neighborhood from changing. The purpose of zoning is to have orderly segregation of industrial and residential areas, not to put neighborhoods into a time capsule.

It doesn't have to be skyscrapers. Raising height limits even modest amounts would help. There are places within a block of the BART station at Mission and 24th that are restricted to 40 foot tall buildings.

The next station down, Glen Park, has a big parking lot across the street from it.

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