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Comment by aucisson_masque | Hacker News Reader

> Several experts described the mechanism as a “clever” workaround that could comply with the letter of the law but not its spirit. “It’s kind of brilliant, but it’s risky,” said a former senior US security official.

If it wasn't Amazon, Google and Israel government, there wouldn't be people pretending it comply with the 'letter of the law'. It is simple treason, selling your own country secret to another.

And the way it's done isn't that 'brilliant'. Oh yes they aren't writing on paper that x country asked for Israel data, they are instead using the country phone index and making payment based on that...

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> officials created a secret warning system: the companies must send signals hidden in payments to the Israeli government, tipping it off when it has disclosed Israeli data to foreign courts or investigators.

> The terms of the Nimbus deal would appear to prohibit Google and Amazon from the kind of unilateral action taken by Microsoft last month, when it disabled the Israeli military’s access to technology used to operate an indiscriminate surveillance system monitoring Palestinian phone calls.

I don’t understand the connection between these two things. The article seems all over the place.

There were many terms

The article is describing multiple examples of terms which appear to facilitate wrongdoing, 2 of which you listed.

Isn’t there a legal term for this?

It is like if it is illegal to import more then $1000 into the country without declaring, and you (clever) give $900 each to 4 of your friends who are conveniently traveling with you, so you only walk across the border with remaining $400, not breaking any laws. Then when inside the country, your friends give you back the $900 each, meaning you just de-facto imported $4000 while technically crossing the border with less then $1000, as legally required.

If normal people tried to do this they would obviously be charged with the crime of illegally importing money, but also with something like a conspiracy to evade the law.

I don't know of a general term, but in financial crime it's generally referred to as 'structuring'. IIRC this is from US legislation but it's definitely used in several other countries. I've also heard it referred to as 'smurfing', particularly when splitting a task like purchasing items in a small enough quantity to not be suspicious.

Obstruction of justice.

At least for us. For the more fortunate, maybe it’s just a “creative interpretation of law.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structuring

When this is done with deposits to avoid IRS scrutiny it's called "structuring."

Perhaps conspiracy and accounting fraud.

It's only treason if Israel is an enemy. YMMV

There are no two countries which have completely transparent data sharing agreements with each other. There are always secrets, whether the opposite party is a friend or an enemy.

Doesn't matter though, the US Constitution defines treason:

> Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.

This bar is virtually impossible to clear. You'll never get a US court to convict anybody of treason for anything concerning Israel. Espionage sure, but not treason. The last time anybody got convicted of treason for anything in America was for acts committed during WW2, which is the last time America was in a properly declared war.

Is there an official list of enemies, or the government can decide who was the enemy afterwards?

It seems crazy to me that any country would outsource storage of military intelligence data to a foreign corporation. But my reading of the article is that the data is physically stored in Amazon and Google datacenters on Israeli soil.

If for some reason the US were storing sensitive data in US-based datacenters operated by a foreign corporation, don't you think they would try to take measures to prevent that data from being exfiltrated? It would be idiotic for Israel not to take what measures it could.

As for the idea that Amazon is acting treasonously - is warning someone that your country is spying on them treasonous? I think they should warn anyone and everyone whose data is being shared with any government, as long as they stay within the letter of the law in the places they operate.

> As for the idea that Amazon is acting treasonously - is warning someone that your country is spying on them treasonous?

Yes it is if you are American. Snowden revealed that the American government was spying on every single American, now he is forced to live hidden in Russia.

It's not "another" "country", though. That's a misconception about Israel, which is not a country, it's a colony. It doesn't have borders, it's dependent on financial handouts from its imperium, does not respect any of the rules that apply to 'countries' (i.e. international law), &c.

Expecting there to be law abidance and so on when dealing with Israel or israelis is a mistake that'll make you the 'freier' in that relationship. This is why Israel and israeli corporations commonly use usian and european fronts when they do business with more discerning customers than the most obvious tyrants of the world.

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