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Comment by hilbert42 | Hacker News Reader

When I was a kid the only horse-drawn vehicle left on the road was the baker's cart. Once my dog came bounding into the house at such speed that he skidded as he rounded the doorway to tell me what he had found. He jumped onto my bed where I was reading a magazine and licked me on the face. I instantly knew what it was.

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It can be quite the canine delicacy

I don’t allow shoes in the house, so the idea of allowing an animal whose bare feet have touched who knows what outside roam around the house and furniture and bedding is interesting to me.

But then I read about getting licked by a dog that had just tasted poop (I think that is the implication here)…

Imagine for a second, if you loved something so much, so much that these tiny details didn't matter, not even a micro percentage, because they give you so much value, warmth and meaning to your life.

It's a good place to be, if you can get yourself there.

Sure, the dog is dirty.

But our animal bodies evolved to live in the dirt, no? I believe it to be true that babies who grow up with dogs and are exposed to their "dirtiness" actually develop stronger immune systems.

Here's the first study I could find on the topic: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S088915912...

Anyways, not to criticize your hygiene, but I find it interesting how human constructs are often not actually that good for humans.

I think there's something to that study. Both sides of my family were dog owners and none of us ever suffered allergies, asthma, hay fever, etc.

My mother was a sticker for cleanliness and drummed into us kids from an early age to always wash up properly after handling animals, especially birds. I suppose that's why I was horrified when the dog licked me.

That said, with owning animals there'll always be enough animal 'residue' left in the nearby environs no matter how clean one tries to be. BTW, I also kept white mice and rats when a kid.

Leaving aside hygiene issues, I believe it's important for kids to grow up with animals for many reasons—too many to discuss here.

>But our animal bodies evolved to live in the dirt, no?

Evolving while existing on or tolerating dirt is not evolving -to- live in the dirt. It may very well be that some exposure to pathogens is beneficial, and some of that may be conferred by contact with animals (I know daycare does that job for sure), but I will still work to reduce my exposure to it within my home and on my body.

If I recall correctly, properly managing waste (human and otherwise) via sewage and plumbing has been a material contributor to decreased morbidity/mortality rates in the developed world.

Well, I think that it’s obvious on the face of it that managing human sewage instead of throwing it into the streets would be a better alternative, given that our own waste is toxic to us. The claim about “otherwise” should be sourced.

Am I seriously being asked to source that animal feces can cause disease?

https://www.cdc.gov/toxoplasmosis/about/index.html

>Animal to human transmission: accidentally consuming the parasite through contact with cat feces (poop) or contaminated soil that contains Toxoplasma

https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news/2024/01/e-coli-factor...

https://www.cdc.gov/toxocariasis/about/index.html

>Toxocariasis can spread to people through contact with the feces (poop) of dogs and cats with roundworm. Roundworm eggs are carried in animal feces and can get into peoples' mouths through contaminated dirt or unwashed hands.

There's a million other avenues if you search "disease from animal feces"

If it makes you feel better, horse and cow poop is not like most other animal poop. It's nowhere near as pungent and generally has more of a grassy sort of smell.

Fun fact, dried horse/cow poop makes and excellent fire starter. It's loaded with fibers the burn like crazy. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_dung_fuel

> It's nowhere near as pungent and generally has more of a grassy sort of smell.

Oh I dispute that! I grew up in a small town that offered horse-drawn carriage rides for the tourists. You could smell that shit for miles.

I also grew up in a small town and it could be I'm nose blind to it.

To me, pig and sheep were the worst smelling farm animals. Everything else, cows, horses, etc were just "meh". There's a smell, but it's not like stepped in dog poop smell.

Even driving past cattle feed lots I don't generally notice too much of a bad smell.

I grew up on the edge of the suburbs (huge city, but one with lots of cornfields on the periphery). Plenty of visits to local farms. This describes where I live now as well, where occasionally horses wander past on the street, and we get to deal with their shit by the street. Cow manure is put on the fields in spring.

Yeah, "grassy" is a word for it. But it still smells like shit. Less horrid than dog shit, but it's marginal.

As far as dogs being dirty - mine won't eat animal shit, either because she is not interested or because she picks up that we wouldn't like it (surprising, actually, how attuned she is to things we don't like). But she does not care at all about touching her own shit. She'll walk in it, throw it around after pooping when she is scratching the grass.

I will say that spreading cow manure, especially since it's wetted beforehand, does really stink.

You all have clearly never smelled cat pee and cat poop.

Now that is pungent and nauseating. I like cats, but their pee and poop make me cringe.

Studies show that cat urine contains more concentrated urea and ammonia than other pets’ urine, making it especially pungent.

High Concentration of Waste: Cat urine is highly concentrated due to their evolution from desert-dwelling ancestors. This adaptation allows them to absorb more water, resulting in urine that contains a higher concentration of waste products.

Breakdown of Urea: When cat urine sits in a litter box, bacteria begin to break down urea, a component of urine. This process releases ammonia, which contributes to the strong, unpleasant odor.

Presence of Mercaptans: As urine decomposes, it also produces mercaptans, sulfur compounds that emit a skunky smell. This intensifies the overall odor of cat urine over time.

Hormonal Influence: Unneutered male cats produce urine with a stronger smell due to hormones used for marking territory. Unspayed females also have potent-smelling urine, especially when in heat.

Did you prompt an LLM for a list of reasons why cat waste smells bad?

If so, why did you think it was a good idea to paste that here?

"Did you prompt an LLM for a list of reasons why cat waste smells bad?"

Don't know about vee-kay but most of those facts I learned from my grandmother, it's pretty common knowledge. The remainder—mercaptans—I learned in o-chem. LLMs not necessary.

I just did a quick search for "why cat pee is so pungent", and pasted the info here, since it felt relevant to this discussion.

My grandmother didn't like the neighbors' male cats because they used to pee on her vegetable garden. Once peed upon the smell was so bad you'd chuck the vegetable out (no amount of washing would remove it).

We never had that problem with our cats. They left the garden alone for the most part.

The one thing I'll say about the stinky cat, it keeps rodents away better than anything else. The cats at my parents' house eventually died off and when that happened the mice started invading the house.

Once they bought some more cats, the mouse problem went away again.

I raised my last dog on a raw meat, bones, and organs diet. His poops were much smaller, less smelly, and broke down much faster (compared to spells where I had him on regular dog food).

In fact, I could tell what he'd eaten by smelling his poop, not that I did that intentionally... "Yep, that's chicken all right!" Ironically, it wasn't smellier when the food was "spoiled" (by my standards, "greatly improved with aging" was his take).

My point is only: we've accidentally engineered their food for maximum disgustingness on egress.

Right, but dogs are nevertheless somewhat discriminating. When a kid, I fed my dog on butcher's off-cuts which I'd get for free. Usually they'd be meaty and fresh enough for us humans to eat (but we never had need and ate better).

Occasionally, the butcher gave me meat that whilst not 'off' was a little stale and had a trace of smell about it and my dogs noticed the fact. They'd eat it with reluctance and or only when very hungry. A quick and almost miraculous solution was to pour boiling water over the meat which would turn its outside grey or brownish (it being still raw in the middle). The dogs would then instantly eat it, in fact I had to be careful to let it cool down so they wouldn't scold themselves.

I think some people used the dried variety to ward off moskitoes.

For the record, I was quite horrified—dogs are really dirty (most owners don't seem to know that). I never knowing let them lick me especially my face. The dog was exuberant, it happened so quickly.

I've often seen people letting their dogs lick their faces and eat off the table and I reckon they must never have been taught hygiene when young (surely if not at home they'd be taught that at school?).

I'd never knowingly eat food they'd prepared.

> dogs are really dirty (most owners don't seem to know that)

I'll take getting bit by a dog over getting bit by a human any day of the week. We're much dirtier.

You're focusing on the anti-microbial powers of the saliva, which isn't what most people mean by 'dirty'. Also, it's a myth.

https://www.google.com/search?q=is+dog+saliva+cleaner+than+h...

"I'll take getting bit by a dog over getting bit by a human any day of the week."

Nevertheless, a very risky proposition unless you're in a guaranteed rabies-free area or are vaccinated against it.

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