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Comment by cultofmetatron | Hacker News Reader

I wish we had croussants here in teh states (tiny speciality shops not withstanding). They are a rare. instead we get a weird butter flavored croissant shaped bread with nothing of the texture or aroma of the real thing.

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It's not just the states, pretty much all of Europe and even in France you'll find cheap croissants made with margarine. You always need to go to a real small bakery (tiny specialty shop as you say) to find real, freshly baked croissants. That's just a bit easier in France. The problem isn't where you live, it's where you shop.

> It's not just the states, pretty much all of Europe

Everywhere you go pastries are not even 10% as good as in France. You can pick anything in a semi decent french bakery and it'll be miles ahead of the best pastries you'll find in most places

That's one of the greatest mystery of life to me, all they have to do is copy super simple hundred years old recipes. Why don't they make flans ? eclairs ? croissants ? madeleines ? sablés ? Everyone else seems dead set on baking the sweetest or greasiest things

Cost is a big part of the reason.

A small-ish flan for 6 people costs more than than a "sponge" type cake for 12. And the sponge cake is massive in size comparison because of all the air.

And this is why Walmart, for example, will likely never sell proper bread, or other pastry products.

Here is a recipe taught to students in bakung and pastries : it takes quite a lot of time to make them properly, hence the cost-cutting measures of a lot of shops ! https://encoreungateau.com/croissants-cap-patissier-recette/

The steps required to make proper pastries are anything but simple, and the ingredients are not particularly cheap (anymore!) either.

What makes a croissant a croissant is hundreds of layers of properly layered dough, with the right amount of butter between layers, for instance.

And even then, beware of scams, even in France. "Real small bakeries" is not a guarantee. Simple "croissants" don't have to use butter, and they often don't. "Croissants au beurre" have butter in it, but it may be only a small quantity, the rest being a mix of vegetable fats. They are usually better than the ones with margarine, but you still don't have the real thing. You need to make sure to get "croissants pur beurre", or even better "croissants pur beurre AOP".

Many bakeries have both, the "pur beurre" are more expensive, obviously.

When you look at the raw ingredient price, it makes a lot of sense that they want to use alternatives to butter. Margarine is about 4€/kg, fake butter 8€/kg, real butter 12€/kg, there is about 25g of it in a croissant. Considering that a croissant is about 1€ (outside of big cities / tourist places), that's a significant fraction of the cost.

Also, most bakeries in France don't make their own croissants, pur beurre or not. Even for those that make their own bread. It is quite a complicated process and most bakeries just buy them frozen from a factory and only do the baking. Now, it doesn't mean they are bad, I prefer it when croissants are fully made on site, but I can make do with industrial dough, "pur beurre" however is non negotiable.

Most bakeries offer the two types though: "au beurre" and "sans beurre". The later don’t necessarily needs to be made with cheap margarine, a good vegetal oil (or a combinaison) suits very well. The flavor is different and I prefer those than the butter ones. Freshness is a must obviously as peer said.

You're right, and I was simplifying. The problem isn't margarine per se, it's cheap margarine. Which is what you'll find in nearly all supermarket croissants. Even the ones advertising "all butter" in a supermarket will be using the shittiest butter that they're still legally allowed to call butter. Depends on the country but often has additives like food coloring and artificial butter flavor.

> even in France you'll find cheap croissants made with margarine

Rare. Most bakeries in France serve their local community, and they won't get repeat business if their croissants are shit. There is actually a standard and you can't call yourself a bakery (boulangerie) unless you make your stuff from scratch onsite.

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/section_lc/LEGITEXT0000...

This is correct, croissants are best the closer they are to the time they were pulled from the oven. A specialty bakery will have croissants made that day. Sometimes cafes will carry a local bakers goods, just ask.

It's not just about that, though. Some places make awful croissant-shaped things, for example just next door in Spain. You can get better croissants from Tesco Express in the UK, and I doubt they are made with butter.

Right that’s why you would ask.

Because most in North America are made with margarine or a mix of margarine and butter, so much of the butter "taste" is fake. That's also why the lamination is worse.

Costco will sell you an implausibly large number of croissants. They're pretty good if you eat them the same day. They go bad very rapidly, which makes sense given that the minimum purchase size is something like 24.

They're still better than Costco's "bagels", which do not share any properties of bagels other than the toroidal shape.

I'm not a croissant expert, but I do like the Costco ones. I just need to convince 2-3 friends to split them with me, and then eat multiple per day, in order for them to make sense as a purchase.

> I wish we had croussants

That's funny because the typo you made at "croissants" make it sound exactly like this guy says it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScSp4mGIrdE

Same with bagels here in the UK. Round bread with a hole in it, for the most part.

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