Yes and I believe others in their own society penalized them for that, yes? Because it violates the local moral norms by placing greed over honesty. Would that happen in China? Like their approach works fine for them, it seems like at some point culturally they just gave up on trying to get people to be honest and just routed around that. Similar to how they routed around trying to get people to be humble with face culture. Making observations about a culture has to be allowable, because cultures are actually different. Why wouldn’t they be? They’ve been isolated from each other for a long time, from a purely memetic evolution perspective we would expect them to be different. And Chinese culture has been around a lot longer so I’m open to the idea that their approach could be more effective. But if you make policy expecting them to be honest, your policy will fail. You just need to make policy against game theory without making moral assumptions.