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Comment by nullhole | Hacker News Reader

Maybe I'm prudish, but I really dislike the term 'enshittification'. It sounds ugly, and it makes what would otherwise be polite discussions vulgar.

'Degradation' seems to carry most (all?) of the same meaning and doesn't have those downsides.

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I don’t mind it at all, because it’s purposefully turning to shit. Degradation sounds slow natural. Like how a computer bought in 2005 that runs just as well as back then has seemed to have degraded 20 years later, no fault of its own.

I do have a hard time believing this author coined the term in 2022. I’ve had this phase as part of my vocabulary for much long than that to describe the same exact phenomenon, I know I didn’t invent it but it’s been around in the online software community at least. Maybe he claims ownership because he was the first to write about it, or maybe my memory is just failing me and he deserves the credit. Idk but that tidbit bothers me way more than the words. I don’t let vulgarity get in the way of having polite conversations, they’re not mutually exclusive in my opinion.

You are right. Looking at ngram it seems to have appeared around 2016. But it was even around in 1970s but perhaps in a different context. So it’s perhaps better to say that he popularised it.

If you want, you can translate to Latin and call it "faecefaction".

The key difference is that degradation can be a natural process, or a result of neglect, while faecefaction is a deliberate act of turning a product into crap, while knowing that the customer will continue buying for some time, due to inertia and / or lack of alternatives.

I think it’s perfect. It captures the vulgarity present in the intention.

I agree that is vulgar but the word carries more meaning than degradation. I thought perhaps dilapidation might work but that also misses some of the nuance.

I agree with you -- I never use vulgar words, so I cannot use this word myself. That being said, maybe you saw this article being posted a few days ago: https://frankchimero.com/blog/2025/selling-lemons/ writing about the concept of "Market for Lemons". The last paragraph compares the two ideas:

> What makes the Market for Lemons concept so appealing (and what differentiates it in my mind from ens**tification) is that everyone can be acting reasonably, pursuing their own interests, and things still get worse for everyone. No one has to be evil or stupid: the platform does what’s profitable, sellers do what works, buyers try to make smart decisions, and yet the whole system degrades into something nobody actually wants.

(I don't know if Doctorow's concept really relies on malice.)

Degradation sounds passive, like something getting worse due to lack of care. Enshittification as a new word have the luxury of no baggage, so to me it perfectly captures the process of taking active, intentional steps to change stuff in a way that makes end user experience worse, but (maybe) product owner richer.

I always think of it as the "Perez plateau"[1], but I will grant that this is less catchy.

[1]: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Phases-of-the-S-Curve-Pe...

> It sounds ugly, and it makes what would otherwise be polite discussions vulgar.

The impacts to consumers are ugly, so it's only fair to use ugly language to describe it.

I understand where you're coming from and agree.

But "enshittification" has its own specific meaning which goes beyond existing terms (i.e. it's specific to degradation of platforms making money from two sides of the transaction).

I wish we had a better term for it, but it can't be replaced by just "degradation".

My P.O.V is that corporate double speak is prudish, distorts on purpose and overall is much worse for humanity. Enshittenification is ugly but truthful.

Enshittification captures a specific type of degradation - the inevitable deterioration of a product or service under an economic system that is obligated to secure ever larger profits. I like the fact that it is slightly vulgar because there is an element in this process that is revolting - the idea and acceptance that its fulfillment is guaranteed.

The vulgarity also carries with it higher odds of the term detaching from the intellectual sphere and into the common man, increasing awareness and hope of consumer pushback.

American English prefers more slang in general. The context here is largely American.

When the present-day is compared to the promises and hopes for big tech as the companies were starting, the word seems appropriate. We ain’t in Sunday school! Degradation doesn’t capture that many of the changes for the worst are willful and intended.

I think we're well past 'degredation', enshittification is abuse at the end users cost.

I agree, a conspiracy theorist would suggest it's a deliberate move to reduce the amount of people talking about it, in media, amongst friends etc.

There are some people who swear every other word when talking to friends and family. Fine, they'll talk regardless. But there's a significant number who don't, and they will thus avoid using "enshittification" in conversations, reducing the cultural awareness of it.

"Enshittification" captures the concept that the degradation was knowing and willful, not accidental.

I agree that the vulgarity is problematic, but the ugliness seems rather appropriate.

Degradation can happen due to inaction - that is not what enshittification is. Enshittification is the endgame of a platform where the owner stops courting buyers and sellers (in that order) and allocates all the profit to itself.

Degradation has a generic meaning.

When you say enshittification, people know exactly what you mean.

Exactly. Degradation can occur for many reasons.

Enshittification is a deliberate kind of degradation to juice a metric.

That metric is never “customer satisfaction”

your handle is "nullhole", sorry champ enshittification is no more vulgar than that.

Isn't that the point, though?

Not only that, if someone has such a poor grasp of English they probably have little of value to say.

Enshittification was coined by Cory Doctorow who has been writing and publishing for decades and won plenty of awards.

I don't always agree with what he says, but I'm pretty sure he has a pretty good grasp of English and plenty of valuable things fo say.

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