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Comment by lvl155 | Hacker News Reader

I know this is controversial but there are so many foreign students in the PhD programs across the country. Some programs actually favor non-US students. Some professors quite explicitly pick their own race despite that being highly illegal. I think higher ed in the US became a major scam.

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What does this have to do with anything here? The only common thread is that it's related to PhDs. You just have a bone to pick with our higher education being so desirable that people upend their lives to come and participate in it at great expense? This has been a significant source of soft power for the US, as both a self-reinforcing function ensuring we attract and retain top research talent, and by seeding American-educated intellectuals back to their home countries to increase our global influence. Nothing about this was bad for any party involved.

Of course, with the rampant anti-intellectualism burning a path through our institutions, we're currently doing our best to kill that and make sure we fall behind in every respect.

It has everything to do with it considering where things are with current admin. Also why do you think people are sacrificing so much to study in the US? It’s mostly funded. They even get stipends. We are basically paying them to get their degrees here. But you seem to think that they’re doing us a huge favor. What an odd way to think about it.

Do you think it is charity? The PI hires a student and the student works for them, typically 3-5 years on a salary of around $35,000, often very extensive hours. If the student is talented and dedicated you can conduct more and better research than if they are not. A large proportion of the most talented and dedicated candidates will not be American. It is not a 'huge favor' it is a mutually beneficial arrangement.

> We are basically paying them to get their degrees here.

If they are the best and brightest of the world and typically stay back and contribute significantly above the median employee to US industry or even start their own companies, why is it framed in such a negative way?

Citation needed on all claims.

What does it even mean to be "the best of the world"? People are not numbers, you cannot just rank them by score!

I'd like to know about your experience in modern academe. I've gone to top-ranked schools in America (UT Austin, Stanford). My experience with the average foreign graduate student is not "top research talent." Most of the time you have a mid-level grifter that wants a green card, a work visa, or something else that simply lets them immigrate here. The work that they produce in exchange for that is low quality. The decline in the quality of graduate degrees may in many ways mirror the issues that tech workers have had with H-1Bs: they were intended to attract high quality talent, but became a corrupt racket.

The PhD student segregation was blatant even going back a few decades, but it was based on country of origin not race.

You’d have a Chinese professor and all his students were Chinese, an Indian professor and all hers were Indian etc… The American born professors tended to have mostly American born students, but it was a bit more mixed.

It’s hard to know whether this was based on the professor’s preference or the students’.

Of course the intent is not malicious. As a student you want someone who speaks your language and someone who understands you. And similarly for professors.

The absurdity is Americans assuming people won’t express in-group preference.

The intent doesn’t have to be malicious for the outcome to be harmful or outright illegal in this case.

I agree, we should use policy to prevent bad outcomes.

This has probably been true forever. I considered applying for an internship at a medical center back in the 80's. My adviser laughed and told me it was a slot created by an Indian professor and was intended to be filled by an Indian student.

"true forever" to what extent?

In 1979, 14% of PhDs went to non-citizens. In 2024, it's 38%.

(Table 1-6 in https://ncses.nsf.gov/surveys/earned-doctorates/2024#data )

Not to mention the sexual misconduct and coercion

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