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Web design is 95% typography and 100% content. I can't tell you how many times we have to design without knowing the actual CONTENT or text and we're forced to dropping Lorum Ipsum (fake text) in the designs. Not knowing the text stops us from knowing the USER, the target audience, and the entire REASON for the website. Actually knowing the subject, content and text makes the difference between 'nice' and 'functional'.

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Honestly though, I think we need to take more responsibility in helping shape that copy. I've also had pretty bad experiences when the client had a dedicated writer assigned. My favorite approach is to, whenever copy is missing, go to a competitors site or Wikipedia, and copy/paste. At least you get an approximation, and it helps everybody who looks at the project start responding to and thinking about content. As UXers/designers/developers we might actually have a very good feel for content and are in a great position to get the process started.

An interface with Lorem Ipsum is like a portrait of a person without pupils drawn. It becomes abstract and all live is missing.

I think this speaks (good) volumes about you and your approach - without all the details you take the initiative.

As someone currently using 99designs (booo!hiss!) to get a website relaunch off the ground. There are one or two designers who have actually, well, read the brief, who engage and listen to feedback intelligently. I will want to work with them again in different areas, and am happy to see they have got some portfolio beginning.

Its the difference between asking permission and asking forgiveness.

On the opposite end of this, no amount of organizing for the impending content by creating fake but ideal character counts (something I've done on nearly every site I've worked on) has led to those constraints actually being followed by the internal staff or external clients I've worked with. This is easily one of the biggest after-the-fact issues/time consumers I deal with in dev because often times, the content isn't finalized even after launch. At the end of the day my experience has been that the content provider would rather the layout be changed to accomodate their copy rather than them going back in and removing a few words they feel are vital/more appropriate for the messaging. Obviously YMMV, but be sure to calculate the effort vs. your understanding of how the business makes decisions or you may be in for some heartbreak.

With all due respect, neither the designer, nor the client knows what the right copy and the right layout is.

A/B testing does.

The layout will be changed to accomodate the best conversion of customers to cash. Anything else is under-selling your client.

This is in situations where there isn't the time nor the budget for A/B and it's one person's word against another, which is a much more likely scenario for any website plucked at random.

If it's a website that makes money there is time and budget for a/b testing

if it does not make money how is there budget for professional designer and copywriters? Edit It's late, that post is more aggressive than I meant it to be and so, I apologise for snapping at you, I would like to suggest you have a look at @patio11's blog Kalzumeus if you want to be bludgeoned with AB test positivity, and bid you goodnight

But seriously, AB test your designs - in fact I might suggest that designers who offer a design-and-test service would make more cash and more leverage in negotiations than not

now there is an interesting counter to 99designs

I don't know where our disconnect is here, sorry. I'm not saying anything remotely negative about A/B. I'm saying that despite business owners understanding the potential, other things get in the way (other projects, time constraints, etc). For many people, their website isn't their primary means of revenue and their designers' and copywriters' time is best spent on the part of the business where shareholders have proven results of their effectiveness and value-add.

I'd be worried they'd leave the copy/paste approximation in the final website. Maybe that says more about the people I work with though.

What I do in those cases is to color the unchanged text in red or pink. That way anybody can see what needs to be done and help get things moving.

That's absolutely true, but hand on heart, how many Web Designers/Developers here really have a say on when they receive content? The chance to build a design around the content would be a fine thing for many of us.

Yeah, most of them think of their website as a online brochure. Unfortunately that's also how most (print)designers think. They've been doing the Lorum Ipsum Dance for years and years.

I've repeatedly had the pleasure of receiving content on the very day of the launch. And yes, it often involves tweaking the stylesheet, or something similar.

That's a common occurrence for myself and many of the designers I work with. Regarding content, we are at the client's mercy, and unfortunately I find their sense of urgency is often nearly non-existent.

I thoroughly agree. Its astonishing the number of times I've had projects stumble, sometimes collapse, at the "writing the content" stage. And only ONCE have I had someone hand me (nearly) complete copy before I started designing.

Once in complete exasperation at the total absense of copy from a client I offered to write it for them for a modest extra fee, and then rang their phone number (one of the few pieces of text I did have) and interviewed one of their call center staff to get the down low on the business.

I agree to such an extend that I signed up for an account to up-vote this.

Damn! ;-) Welcome aboard.

in my 10 year experience working as a developer at web design companies the prettiest the layout the designer came up with the less functional it is in practice.

...and lets not get started on what happens once the end users start adding content... I feel like crying!

Very true, I've seen plenty of people waste hours debating how to tweak layout in fairly minor ways to increase conversions when in fact their entire content either doesn't make sense, is incomplete or is just plain boring.

If I still were in "Web design/dev" I would put this in the footer of every mail and papers I send to people I work with.

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