To some of us weirdos, it actually matters whether things we repeatedly stand up and declare or sing about are true, and whether the stories we draw meaning from are factually correct, and whether values we repeatedly and publicly affiliate ourselves with are good.

And, among this admittedly weird fragment of the population, those of us who think the things churchgoers affirm and derive meaning from and value are true and good are mostly already going to church, and those of us who think they're not so true and mostly not so good shouldn't be going to church, no matter how sorry our asses.

It's the church which destroyed itself. Using its influence for political power, that gave it short term power but destroyed it long term.

And I would not agree with religion providing sense of the world. It's another coping mechanism to deal with absurdity in the world. There is a reason people fallback to religion when times get tough.

The important part of the "church" in this context is finding a third space[0]. A church can be a reasonable third space, even for atheists. Particularly in smaller communities with limited resources. Other healthy options include hackerspaces / makerspackes (that is my third space of choice), libraries, parks, sporting events, etc.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place

Attending church can have negative consequences because religion promotes belief in unprovable claims, building life on a false premise: since the central claim isn’t true, the practices and rules around it may seem hollow or misleading.

Religion discourages critical thinking, consumes time and money, enforces conformity through social pressure, and expose individuals to guilt, shame, or manipulation by institutions with histories of abuse or corruption.

Honest question: for women, are there any churches or other religious or spiritual traditions that do not limit them or afford them a second-class status relative to other members? (This can be in terms of church elders/leadership positions or just importance in activities, speeches giving women good role models, etc). For instance Catholic traditions usually provide quite a few female role models (not least Mary) but heavily sideline women in actual church operations, whereas Protestant traditions have more equitable leadership ranks, but don't give as much space to women who are not in leadership. I am not clueful enough to discuss other traditions sadly.

> All the government programs he advocates for are just pale imitations of the vibrant communities that humans were made for and which modern society has done its best to destroy.

Humans were not made for anything, and for most of the existence of our species, there were no churches, indeed no buildings of any kind. Until ~10k years ago, with the development of agriculture and permanent settlements, humans lived in relatively small hunter-gatherer groups. These communities may indeed have been "vibrant", but they were organized around family and survival, not religion.

Contrary to your claim, churches and organized religion have been made possible by modern society, not destroyed by it. It's unclear where exactly you see the destructive causes, apart from the progress of science that has tended to undermine religious belief?

In the United States, churches are tax-exempt. In that sense, they are promoted by the government in a crucial way.

church only provides meaning if you actually _believe_ the stuff the priest lectures about for 30 minutes at mass. Otherwise you get to play make-believe for 1 hour each week.

For me, church increases my blood pressure. I was forced to attend church as a child and didn’t believe any of the stuff by the time i was an older teen. Going to church feels patronizing to me, since i don’t believe any of it. And i’m bitter that i was “forced” into it by my parents. They never at ANY point asked me if I want to continue going, and I know for certain that even if i spoke up they would have ignored me. Ugh.

Anyway i’ve had good luck making friends at my local Y, through friends of friends, and occasionally work.

It is perfectly possible to go to church regularly and talk to no one there.

It's hard. I belong to an atheist-inclusive church, but I've been skipping for about a month and I'm reluctant to show up again.

Words like "community", "fellowship", "connection" are used a lot, but there's no obvious checklist for me to follow when I wake up Sunday morning feeling like a piece of shit and having no desire to inflict myself on others.

I'm an atheist, but I do wish I could go to church, or at least something like that. I've tried going to other non-religious clubs but it's not really the same. A pottery class just doesn't give that same feeling of "belonging".

The trouble is it just seems a bit too serious every time I've been. I don't believe any of it, and I can't believe anyone with intelligence could believe it either. But unlike, say, WWE-style wrestling, there are way too many people taking it far too seriously. You never hear of atrocities or stupidity happening because someone took wrestling too seriously. Are there churches that are more like wrestling?

Is this true? I see a lot of people on the right complaining about loneliness epidemic, so it would seem odd that people who are attending church would have this issue and it still being a problem. You hear about lots of young, right-wing men talking about this as an issue, so church is clearly not solving it for them.

This is all hearsay and anecdotal, mind you, and I admit I have not done the research here. It's not a condition I have, nor do any of my friends. I believe it's happening, but the claim of "just attend church" doesn't seem to being paying off to me.

no

I'll do you one better: start your own cult!