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Comment by sugarpimpdorsey | Hacker News Reader

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Others have already pointed out some of the obvious issues with your reasoning, but I'd like to add that improving bike and pedestrian infrastructure can actually make it easier for motorists by reducing the number of vehicles on the road and by easing congestion through traffic calming. You can actually end up with more parking spaces because while some parking spaces may be lost by adding bike paths (which is not a given!) it's entirely possible this is offset by a reduced number of cars on the road.

Also, in places with good bike infrastructure it's normal to see food delivery drivers riding bikes instead of driving cars.

SF has dedicated commercial loading zones, for large deliveries. (Or, for some of the larger buildings, they just have an underground or partially underground loading dock.) For things like Uber, yes, one would need to find a parking spot, not park in an active lane of traffic¹. If either are insufficient, people are free to lobby for more, where they are needed.

(¹and as bike lanes are not wide enough to accommodate a vehicle, you're partially blocking a car lane, too.)

Your last point is one of the most frustrating things with unprotected bike lanes - drivers will endanger bicyclists for no real gain when they park in the bike lane because the car lane is also still blocked! Somehow they prefer to block 2 active travel lanes instead of just one.

Commercial loading zones only for major retailers.

Your lunch is not that special that it needs its own car. Luckily bikes excel at this job too.

I mean... I ordered dinner last night after getting into SF around 2am. Not only did I meet the Dasher in my hotel's lobby, when I saw the direction he was coming from on the app, I went outside, across the street, and over to the alley he was coming down then held my phone up so he could see me.

I don't live here, but I can see parking is a huge hassle. Why make the poor guy circle the block until the hotel's portico had an opening for him to park when I could just walk like 50', get my food faster, and save him 5-10 minutes?

Unfamiliar with SF? Uber Eats drivers don't "find parking". They drive two wheeler electric bicycles and scooters with a big box on the back. When they 'park' they stop their vehicle on the sidewalk.

I mean, I get your point that you can make rules that make other things costly. It's just that the SF adaptation doesn't have the characteristics that you describe so it's some kind of personal political erotica. What actually happens is:

> Dreams of a utopia with bike lanes everywhere and drivers ticketed left and right

> Delivery drivers double park their trucks and tickets are cost of business

> UberEats and DoorDash are delivered by electric bike with HMP logo on front

>Wonders why shelves are empty when delivery drivers can't park their trucks anywhere

uh don't big shops usually have truck ports?

Safeway? Sure. Mom-and-Pops? Not usually. How are small restaurants going to get their ingredients delivered if delivery trucks can’t park? Ok maybe in some locations they can park a few blocks away and deliver with hand trucks —but then they risk taking much more time to deliver and going back to a broken-in truck or van.

> How are small restaurants going to get their ingredients delivered if delivery trucks can’t park?

The only city where this is a problem is New York, because we don’t have alleys in our densest neighbourhoods. And in New York, our solution is for folks to park illegally and the meter maids to print tickets which are treated as a business expense.

In San Francisco, park in an alley, deliver at night, or park away from the site and use a scooter or whatnot to make the last mile. (Or eat the ticket.)

> And in New York, our solution is for folks to park illegally, the meter maids to print tickets which are treated as a business expense.

Its a sad game that has to be played. Used to have a family business and a good chunk of our business was in Manhattan. The fucking parking games were insane and it got to the point where we gave up and started charging a Manhattan fee that was the cost of a parking ticket. Another issue was dealing with cops directly chasing you when double parked which was unfortunately another commonly needed tactic. Even UPS and FedEx play the game. You see a driver got out, load up a cart with a few dozen boxes and head down the street all while a traffic cop is writing up a ticket. It's such a bozo city sometimes.

> It's such a bozo city sometimes

It’s a weird little ecosystem. If tickets were made more expensive, parking in lots and having smaller vehicles (probably bikes) fan out would make sense. If they were cheaper, you wouldn’t have all the meter maids.

As a former Manhattan resident, I have to say, this was never a point of frustration. The illegally parked trucks tended to make quick stops on two-lane roads. Contrast that with getting stuck behind a fucking garbage truck going cross town…

In Seattle there are 3-minute load/unload areas in the commercial pockets. This is a solvable problem. It’s not even hard.

This is reasonable and I would welcome this in cities in general. Make it 4 minutes. What I loathe is people double parking while there is a perfect spot half a block up or down. How can people be so absolutely lazy and inconsiderate? It’s baffling.

Why 4 minutes? Why not 5 or 15 or 2? It’s not literally 3 minutes, it’s “3 minutes”. As in it’s subjective and meant as a short term load/unload area.

It’s not designed around your strawman.

Maybe he had to use the restroom in an emergency?

I'd prefer people delivering my goods and handling my food park illegally in a bike lane and use a restroom like a civilized person rather than being forced to go in a Gatorade bottle before handing me my sandwich.

> Wonders why shelves are empty when delivery drivers can't park their trucks anywhere

What shelves are empty? Touch grass.

> Maybe he had to use the restroom in an emergency?

So the premise is made up.

> I'd prefer people delivering my goods and handling my food park illegally in a bike lane and use a restroom like a civilized person rather than being forced to go in a Gatorade bottle

Sure. And they get a ticket. This is a feeble argument.

This is a poor format to put forth an argument in.

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