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Comment by cosmic_cheese | Hacker News Reader

I want to be excited about Linux, but as a long time Mac user (started in the 90s) I don't feel like there's a desktop environment for me. I've used GNOME and KDE on and off for years with some Cinnamon, elementary/Pantheon, and minimalist WM thrown in for good measure, and none of them cut it. The big DEs are much closer to Windows or mobile operating systems than anything else.

And that doesn't even get into the hardware situation, where the number of laptops with long battery life and everything working without quirks can seemingly be counted on one hand.

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I’m very happy with KDE Plasma. Just switched from a MacBook Pro to a Framework.

I’m shocked at how much “just works” like a Mac. It wasn’t like this even a short amount of time ago.

I’m really happy with the hardware too and all it needs is more battery life. Nothing an external battery doesn’t solve (and the framework is a lighter machine so the difference is moot).

Everything works. Fingerprint reader authenticating commercial apps like 1Password, graphics drivers are a part of the kernel and I’m enjoying Windows games on Steam, firmware gets updates from the OS instead of messing around in the BIOS like on Windows, KDE Connect is like AirDrop for Linux, it’s literally a better experience than Windows and Mac if you ask me.

I don’t mind that KDE resembles Windows, I personally think it’s a lot like Windows but without the dumbassery. And of course you can theme it and change settings to have it act more like a Mac (or go with Gnome).

> want to be excited about Linux, but as a long time Mac user (started in the 90s) I don't feel like there's a desktop environment for me.

I can confirm that there is nothing that comes close. Gnome is an abomination even if it might be appealing on the surface. KDE is still very rough around the edges, despite making a lot of progress with each version. I used XFCE for a long time because it can be tweaked to a reasonably useable state and it is light on resources. KDE can be occasionally dog slow on a $12k workstation with a 64-core Threadripper pro and 256 GB of RAM for a reason I cannot imagine. Using my Mac Studio is a much better experience overall.

Try to use GNOME to drive a variable refresh rate display challenge (impossible).

Jabs aside, GNOME is pretty nice compared to where it used to be. Everything still takes a few iterations of touching, but not as many as it used to. Some things are frustratingly unsolvable (see: advanced monitor features), but at least it is a full replacement for Windows on the same hardware. Oh, and contemporary linux distress have audio drivers that appear to work out of the box without having to build the kernel.

When it comes to laptops: it'd be great if anyone made something that competes with a MacBook. It's been a long time. At this point I can only assume there is an economic reason rather than a technical one that Windows and Linux laptops are so bad.

> anyone made something that competes with a MacBook

You need to define what's a MacBook for you. I'm not a fan of the form factor, but I've seen dozens of clones of it for years now and kinda wonder where a Surface Laptop for instance fails for you.

A laptop with nice peripherals, build quality, efficiency such that it isn't hot, loud, and slow at all times, and a power state scheme that isn't completely broken.

You can find some that are 80% in the first two categories. There is nothing remotely in the same league in the last two.

Are the Surface lines slow at all times with a completely broken power state ?

Sounds to me like you never tried any. Which is fair if you're not trying to move away from macs in the first place, but if you're actively looking for alternatives there's a lot you are missing.

No, I haven't tried Surfaces. I have had a series of XPS machines which, at the time, felt close to what I was after. Each had a 5-ish year service life but I was unhappy with each by the end. I'm a more recent mac convert and starting with a 4 year old M1 pro. We'll see if it ages better.

You may want to give Omarchy a try. Not exactly Windows or Mac, but last time I checked myself 95 to 99% of my time on computer is spending inside a browser I think a lot of the old Desktop environment habits no longer matter as much.

https://omarchy.org

It's not a matter of Linux conforming to the way you use a computer, it is rather you who have adapted to the most viable computing experience which Linux offers, which is being inside the browser all the time. You are serving the computer, instead of the computer serving you.

> It's not a matter of Linux conforming to the way you use a computer, it is rather you who have adapted to the most viable computing experience which Linux offers

This is the opposite of my Linux experience, especially in comparison with MacOS. Linux, especially when using KDE, offers customization up the wazoo. The out of the box experience may be a less than optimal, but investing time customizing your installation[0] is very rewarding. Almost anything that can be done on/by your DE can be bound to a shortcut or automated. You'd have to purchase MacOS tools to come close to the configurability of KDE (e.g. window positioning)

1. Or copying your config directory.

It’s nice, based on the demo video I watched but I’m not spending lots of time in web apps or terminals.

I've been happily on cinnamon for years and find it similar to Mac but with way better window tiling out the box.

What's wrong with cinnamon for you?

Cinnamon gets a lot right and has some Mac-like aspects, like how the UI in its apps are laid out, but as a whole it's more comparable to Windows with its taskbar, windowing model, no global menubar, and Control-based key shortcuts among other things.

Cinnamon is like if Microsoft hired apples design department and gave them control of windows.

GNOME with DashToDock and BlurMyShell on Fedora Workstation.

Trust me, it’s macOS enough. I switched from a 16” M2 Max MBP to a HP Elitebook G1A Ultra with Fedora. It’s been a dream.

I always have to set the dock to auto-hide on my Macs. Having a dock that fucks off in Gnome is great.

half joking: https://www.windowmaker.org

the laptop battery life issue is a real thing -- I kicked the can by getting an M1 MacBook Pro instead of a Framework for my most recent upgrade.

I guess for me having control of the machine is worth a lot of little inconveniences.

For me it’s more than a little inconvenience. Switching to Linux represents turning my ability to be productive on a computer totally upside down, tossing out decades of flow building and muscle memory.

As for battery life, it being crappy makes me wonder why I’m even bothering with laptops at all. More than half of their selling point is being portable, which needing to be tethered frequently heavily impinges upon. The sacrifices that come with the portable form factor just aren’t worth it for 3-5h life with real world usage.

I guess I spend 90% of my time in a terminal or in emacs or looking at firefox and so I don't really see what the desktop is doing for me, really. I switch desktops every once and awhile and I find I'm as happy on XFCE as I am with Gnome or KDE. Maybe that is because they all suck?

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