Microsoft has urged its employees on H-1B and H-4 visas to return immediately
timesofindia.indiatimes.com
timesofindia.indiatimes.com
"Clarification" from Press Secretary: https://x.com/PressSec/status/1969495900478488745
1.) This is NOT an annual fee. It’s a one-time fee that applies only to the petition.
2.) Those who already hold H-1B visas and are currently outside of the country right now will NOT be charged $100,000 to re-enter.
H-1B visa holders can leave and re-enter the country to the same extent as they normally would; whatever ability they have to do that is not impacted by yesterday’s proclamation.
3.) This applies only to new visas, not renewals, and not current visa holders.
It will first apply in the next upcoming lottery cycle.
They are more than welcome to roll back this asinine decision, but pretending that everyone else is just mis-interpreting is gaslighting.
Either way, until there is an official, in-writting announcement that can be depended on, no one should be taking the advice of an unnamed White House source.
In any situation, your best bet is to follow the direction and guidance of your own attorney.
There is literally nothing out of this White House you can depend on, even if it is in-writing & signed with the presidents blood. If he feels like it he will ignore it and use mob tactics to get his will through.
I'd follow the words of the proclamation/EO over what the mouthpiece says.
Note that Leavitt's words are any more enforceable though.
Private lawyers don't know any more about this than we do. The administration will do today what the administration decides to do today, not what it previously said it was going to do. At best, the ambiguity will make for a better case that lawyer needs to file eventually. But she's not a mind reader.
Trump has the legal authority to block anyone from entering for essentially any reason (see Trump v Hawaii)
So it doesn't matter much what the white house says today. They are free to change their minds tomorrow. That's part of the strategy, if immigrants are afraid they will be arbitrarily extorted at the border, then only the ones whose employers have bribed Trump will even bother applying
How about transfers?
Transfers technically count as new visas and need to be petitioned. Will every new employer have to shell out 100K? If that's the case, H-1B holders are now actually indentured servants (they were not previously, no matter how many Redditors claim otherwise) because they are now stuck with the current employer with essentially no ability to transfer or find a new employer in case of a layoff.
We have seen Trump making decisions that surprised his closest aids.
They flip flopped on the foreign employees in hospitality and food production. The policies are driven by outrage, crypto purchases and early investors like Project2025 apparently. I don't think that there's any guaranties.
But a lot of skilled labour left anyway. Partly because the general atmosphere got unpleasant. But also highly paid people have spouses, children, parents and other relatives. Once you are told you barely cleared (very high) criteria, you can be pretty sure your retired parents won't, if ever you need them to move in with you.
So the effect may well be that the kind of people whose productivity and tax bracket makes a 100k fee justifiable simply choose to go elsewhere.
Especially when the administration makes their contempt for any rights they have so obvious.
Foreign students were also encouraged to study here and remain after studying. Initially even family reunion immigration was encouraged, although that's changed now.
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1536/cpsprodpb/5579/live/8ea3a...
The UK has been playing this game for centuries - bringing in cheap foreign labour on the quiet, then using that as political leverage with "We will protect you from the foreign invasion" messaging.
High-skilled immigration - not so sure about this.
They were the most pro-immigration government in British history, by far.
The UK was 94% white as recently as 1991 and was 99% white in 1951. What cheap labor was being imported in the centuries prior?
-
> a record-high 79% of U.S. adults say immigration is a good thing for the country.
It’s hard to separate what’s supported by the public and what are random hobby horses of the far right once they get in power.
Because the US has historically been relatively more positive to immigration I am skeptical that we would see the same reaction as in the UK or other countries in the long run (in the short term, it’s all a sht show)
https://news.gallup.com/poll/692522/surge-concern-immigratio...
Don't forget to quote the parts that contradict your statement:
> After climbing to 55% in 2024, the percentage of Americans who say immigration should be reduced has dropped by nearly half to 30%. Sentiment is thus back to the level measured in 2021, before the desire for less immigration started to mount. Meanwhile, 38% now want immigration kept at its current level, and 26% say it should be increased.
Overall, this poll paints a picture of moderation from a period of anti-immigrant sentiment, not of a population that has "swung in favor of immigration", as you assert.
(It also has nothing to do with H1B visas specifically. As far as I can tell, it's almost entirely about illegal immigration.)
It would also be nice if the poll probed as to the reasons for why people hold certain opinions. My guess would be the numbers are changing partly due to political backlash and not due to some economical or social insight.
The good thing about this poll is that the same questions are asked over time. So likely the trends are real. It's just hard to get a more nuanced understanding.
Chain migration is an anti-immigration argument in the US - even if some particular immigrant is highly-skilled and would benefit the US from being a legal resident, that immigrant's family is probably not as impressive. Nonetheless, once the government gives legal residency to the highly-skilled immigrant, they will be highly motivated to try to get the rest of their family to the US as well. So the US should be careful about granting legal residency even to prospective immigrants whose credentials make them individually look good.
Smart professional people desire non-hostile space where they can build a life. When a Russian scientist or Iranian doctor left their countries for London or Paris, they were't calculating for a net income increase, they were running away from an environment that didn't show a promise to allow them realize themselves. Lot's of white collar people are paid well below what they will make if they learn a JS library or do construction work because of their desire to fulfill themselves in a peaceful life and be respected. It is kind of similar to game devs being paid very little in respect to the complexity of the programming they do. If you break that magic, they aren't going to stay.
The UK has had a "brain drain", but it's as much UK citizens as migrants. Economic migrants migrate.
> But also highly paid people have spouses, children, parents and other relatives. Once you are told you barely cleared (very high) criteria, you can be pretty sure your retired parents won't, if ever you need them to move in with you.
Skilled immigration is sold in almost all of the West as a necessary demographic cure. The classic "we're getting older and there is a labour shortage of working age people". The retired parents were never a part of the deal, and are of no interest to almost any Western country. Obvious given that it completely annihilates the justification for bringing people in in the first place.
So if these skilled workers aren't moving to the UK because they can't bring their retired parents, then presumably they aren't also choosing the US, Canada, Germany, etc., given the same situation.
Canada does have a family reunification program but it is not only spectacularly unpopular among the Canadian public and likely to fade away, it allows for a tiny number per year.
They are, certainly at least in Germany there are special provisions for that.
But when you're insecure the feelings you get from the latter are more comforting in the short term.
HN's insistence on decorum is just really poorly suited to the moment.
Much has been said about Trump, but his main quality is this: he's a foot-gun artist.
Could only find 2019 data:
https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/data/h-1b...
Of course, nothing has changed for the illegal ones: they haven't (and won't) see the increased burden of legal migration of which they are oblivious. Overall things are only getting worse, and I hate that there's no attempt to having a honest and transparent debate and discourse on the matter.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
You are wrong. For the Skilled Worker route, the minimum salary threshold is 41k per year, with some special jobs at 33.4k.
> "homeopaths" and "reiki healers"
You are wrong. There are SOC codes for things like "Therapy professionals". They give examples like acupuncturists, art/drama/music therapists, chiropractors/osteopaths, nutritionists, sports therapists/massage therapists. No "reiki healers", though.
> The skilled worker visa only requires B1 English
You are technically right, but are ignoring the larger context. Jobs open for Skilled Worker migrants have to be RQF 6+, which usually means the worker has to perform at the level of a university graduate. So, while the language requirement is B1, the skill requirement is non-trivial.
> You have no idea what you're talking about.
Ironic.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/skilled-worker-vi...
And I only picked those two because they were particularly egregious. The list is full of jobs for which it's absurd to suggest we need to fill from abroad: are we really suffering for a lack of recruitment consultants? Human resources officers? Can no-one can find a homegrown Brit who's able to work as a restaurant manager?
As for the salary threshold, you're right: the basic threshold is £41k, although it can be as low as £25k (not £33.4k) in some circumstances: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/skilled-worker-vi...
I'd argue that £41k is still too low. It's barely above the median UK salary - we can't find anyone in the top ~50% of people who can do these jobs? And it doesn't even make you a net contributor (from what I can tell that threshold is around £50-55k, although for many of these "skilled" workers it's much higher as they bring dependents.) Nevertheless I'll accept a partial L.
Regarding English, maybe I'm wrong about the precise requirements, but I've worked with software professionals in London, here on a skilled worker visa, with whom I was barely able to communicate, so clearly we're doing something wrong.
In any case, my thesis still stands: there have not been "very high" criteria to migrate to the UK recently, in fact quite the opposite, and if you don't believe this then I suggest you go outside and look around.
The immigration system should be designed to block retired parents from moving country to live with their working age adult children who have migrated.
One reason to have immigration is to improve a country's dependency ratio: the ratio of working age population to children and retirees.
The ideal immigrants are young well-educated parents that can stay in the workforce for 40+ years with healthy children that are just about to enter the school system.
That way the receiving country didn't need to invest in educating the parents originally, don't need to pay the healthcare costs of very young infants, and it provides the best possible addition to the the receiving country's demographic structure so the host country benefits from a whole working life of tax payments and all the value created by their work output.
The economic case for even skilled immigration is far less compelling for a receiving nation without such restrictions on immigrating retirees.
Should the country receiving the immigrants let elderly grandparents be cared for by their own country's pension and aged-care and healthcare industry, instead of burdening the receiving countries?
Absolutely unequivocally yes.
The grandparents can always come visit on tourist visas and the immigrants can visit their original country too.
We are on our way there.
I myself am and live in a so called "shithole country ". But specially because of my Technical skills, I've got plenty of opportunities over here. I would never think on living in the USA. Even though I easily could via TN visa. But it's clear US people dont want me living there.
The calculus on immigrating to the US today is clearly negative, but many people immigrated 5/10/20+ years ago before all this shit and have lives there. They did not know any of this would happen.
I'd rather just have waited until an injunction or something next week. The guidance from my company is either make it back before the deadline, or stay where you are until further notice.
I understand your position, but it's a bit of a privileged one. Not everybody will have that option.
Scheduled landing or historical landing time? Flightera.net will show you landing times for 2 years of flights
h1b requires that one company signed as responsible sponsor on form i129. they are the ones on the line for the payment.
Getting into the country before the deadline is the only safe way to avoid the uncertainty and ensure you don’t get stranded out of the country or in an airport for days or weeks while the process is developed.
This hastily constructed and implemented executive order is a terrible way to run a country
ICE black shirts make it more uncertain on enforcement, but there's still laws.
And they decide if you keep your job.
- There is no doubt a large volume of abuse by tech consulting companies. It's likely even worse than it looks, because the H1Bs in the U.S. are to support even larger teams offshore. I don't understand why we can't just blacklist these companies.
- Some of medium-skill hires, e.g., did a 2 year MS degree from random university in the U.S., are also a bit sus, in my opinion.
- I'll bet several of Zuck's recent $10M Superintelligence Team hires were at least briefly on an H1B before getting their EB-1A Green Cards.
- Same for a lot of faculty in computer science -- you can get an EB-1B Green Card quickly, but you have to spend some time on an H1B. You cannot convert directly from a student visa. The O-1 exists, but is not on most people's radars in academia. I think likely because the legal fees are prohibitively expensive. (I have heard $40K+)
Also, HN is hyper focused on tech consulting. H1Bs are used by doctors too especially in rural America. Doctors apply for J1 waiver and then get H1B for work. From what I have heard some places the only available doctor is an immigrant on H1B. This is going to devastate medical teams.
I wish we could ban offshore IT consultancies dumping "talent". Unfortunately politicians will not support such ban, because those consultancies help corporate donors keep the wages down. If the government banned suppliers who use offshore consultancies from bidding for government contracts those outfits would disappear overnight.
"the entry into the United States of aliens as nonimmigrants to perform services in a specialty occupation under section 101(a)(15)(H)(i)(b) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(15)(H)(i)(b), is restricted, except for those aliens whose petitions are accompanied or supplemented by a payment of $100,000 — subject to the exceptions set forth in subsection (c) of this section. This restriction shall expire, absent extension, 12 months after the effective date of this proclamation, which shall be 12:01 a.m. eastern daylight time on September 21, 2025."
So it applies to all H1Bs. Subsection c is limited (but will be interesting to see how it plays out) so I don't bother sharing.
Actual proclamation here: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/09/rest...
Much easier for the companies to recommend/insist on folks fly back before the deadline to avoid issues.
※ - https://www.reddit.com/r/immigration/comments/1nlo8jd/h1b_pr...
This is not the part of America that is meant to be great. This is the part of America that needs to be brought in line to whatever storyline Fox and the media sphere on the right is playing.
I mean, why ELSE would the President make such a decree? Obviously because something is wrong. Taking action when it counts.
This is called a corrupt system. It's the intent. Trump will come out with gold visas for companies who pay him whatever favor he wants at the moment.
This corruption is meant to look at like 'just following orders'. You are providing the fascist lubricant by giving it a good faith examination.
Don't do that.
Quote: Section 1. Restriction on Entry. (a) Pursuant to sections 212(f) and 215(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), 8 U.S.C. 1182(f) and 1185(a), the entry into the United States of aliens as nonimmigrants to perform services in a specialty occupation under section 101(a)(15)(H)(i)(b) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(15)(H)(i)(b), is restricted, except for those aliens whose petitions are accompanied or supplemented by a payment of $100,000 — subject to the exceptions set forth in subsection (c) of this section.[edit] also: https://www.theweek.in/wire-updates/international/2025/09/21...
That's why, typically, this would have been reviewed and planned.
The general public's opinion that it was grossly unjustified and most likely going to be rolled back does not change how clear the initial order was.
The fact that virtually every immigration attorney and firm was on the same page about it goes to show how clear it actually was.
I would love to be wrong on that though...
https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/memos/H1B...
They come up with these rules on a Saturday morning. If you’re a visa holder outside the country and you don’t return to the US by Sunday, you’ll be asked to pay a $100k ransom to re-enter the country where your life and work and children are.
Amazing level of contempt for ordinary foreigners who came into the country legally.
How does Microsoft pay the fee?
Which online portal do they go to? What bank account do they wire a check to over the weekend? What reason do they give for the payment? What USCIS code do they enter? What USCIS forms do they fill that USCIS will then snail mail (because they’re still living in the 90s) an I-797A to the employee that they will present at the border for evidence of payment. What address will USCIS mail the document to (which will be a U.S. address) and how does the employee who is currently abroad get that document from their U.S. mailing address to their current location abroad?
When are they gonna write the code for the lookup that the border agents can use to confirm the validity of this form and payment?
Also, how does all this happen over a Saturday and Sunday?
And even if there are answers to these questions where are those answers posted?
That said I wonder if it’s more of a power grab with the discretion to grant exemptions being used to strong arm corporations to clamping down on criticism of Israel.
MS with N fewer workers is not going to bring in N*$440K less net income. The incremental income added by an average employee is much less than $440K.
This of course creates another problem -- highly paid foreigners price locals out of the housing market, but hej, we can always blame that on refugees, right.
Though it is reasonable to ask whatever you want you must understand there are always someone more desperate (and often with higher skills) that will take that job.
So the fact that 10yoe can’t find a job doesn’t mean anything. Usually this is either too many demands from seeker or skill issue.
Or they don’t eant to take lower salary.
If a company was willing to pay 70k for a developer you must be delusional to think they will suddenly decide to pay 100k+ for local talent.
They will just get a remote contractor
And is it respectable and okay to switch up the law over the weekend if, and just because, the ones who are affected are large companies? Realistically, what's the rush to have the "law" (Congress?) come into effect two days after its announcement, beside making it a shakedown? Remember that policymakers anticipate, or should anticipate, second-order effects. Either Microsoft forks out $100k per employee, or the cost of coping with the new policy is pushed onto the regular Joe. In any case, this produces a sense of crisis and urgency that you'd criticize if it happened at a measly, inexperienced startup you happened to work at.
The law changes three months ahead? Looks like I'll have to cancel my December plans. But when I'm on a holiday? Sure, let me pack my bags, get back to the nearest airport and take the first transcontinental flight. Or maybe Microsoft is flexible enough to have me shoulder the $100K to stay until the end of my holiday?
I'm not sure how openly the measure was discussed beforehand (and on that point: the employees already have visas; why must they return, unless their visa is about to expire?), but it was promulgated _yesterday_.
It’s going to take a long time while Microsoft figures out if they will actually pay these fees and which budget it should come out of.
Meanwhile, if you didn’t return by Sunday, you’re locked out of the country and unable to show up for work which will result in your termination fairly soon.
FAANG are by far the largest users of H1-B. They also have billions of dollars and access to excellent lawyers. They can pay up for this; an excellent employee is certainly worth more than $100k per year to them. Think of this more as a tax levied on some of America’s wealthiest businesses.
I’m actually curious, have you worked at a large corporation before?
It would be atypical for the scenario you are describing to occur given that there has been a US government policy change that’s of no fault of the employee who is still eligible to work in the United States.
Folks aren’t going to be sitting around on Monday morning saying jeez Billy on the H1B visa didn’t show up to work today and we have no clue why, guess he is fired!
Within business units at this scale there are small, dedicated teams that manage contractors, vendor contracts and licenses, keep track of employees on visas, report that information for compliance purposes, etc, and they are almost certainly communicating with their employees who are currently out of the country to provide arrangements and additional details as things progress.
Remember too that this coincides with an RTO order for Puget Sound that kicks in roughly the same time.
[1]https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/reports/o...
I'm Brazilian, I work in the US on H1-B. I'm on vacations in Brazil with my wife and kids, one in school age.
I also came to renew my visa stamp, as I had my extension approved not long ago. My visa is valid from September 21st, so, same day as this proclamation takes effect. And I can't go back before that because my visa is not valid.
My flight was scheduled for tomorrow, and I would land in US by Sep 22nd. Of course, I rescheduled that to not lose my ticket.
I left food in the freezer, car in the garage, and my son is missing classes. And all my family's stuff in the house. Now, I have no idea what will happen, I can't go in to get my things. At least the company is giving support, and I couldn't be more thankful.
But the thing that makes me sadder is the blatant racism towards my Indian friends, reddit and x was swarmed by an army of people that was enabled to call them... whatever they want... It's a good time to be offline now.
The H1-B program has its problems, and I understand the whole frustration with the job market, but this is not they way to solve anything.
"On vacation" makes it sounds like workers were just off "having fun" (which of course is their right), but as your story illustrates, many immigrants are required to leave the US for their visa renewals. To be forced to leave the country and then be barred from return by an sudden change in the rules is the most unjust cruelty.
As an American, I'm deeply ashamed by this. I hope you and your family are able to return home soon. Thank you for sharing your story.
With immigration are unquestionably tough decisions, tradeoffs, philosophies on the issue, and demographics in general. It gets heated, fast. I know I'm biased, but I wish trust had not degraded to such an extent you could believe people could deal with these topics in good faith.
But how can anyone support this kind of craven policymaking where uncertainty and cruelty are features and not bugs? Just shock and awe and deafening silence.
That's what's so dishearterning. Is that who we are now, or is this just a timely excuse to be who we always have?
Lot of people share the sentiments but afraid to post because they are labelled as racist.
want to take a wild guess why this is? and not against any other nationality of immigrants in tech?
> i am telling myself that people who were posting those things are small in numbers.
Have you heard about the term "the silent majority"?
> … the effective date of this proclamation, which shall be 12:01 a.m. eastern daylight time on September 21, 2025.
That doesn’t leave much time. I would have expected that current visa holders wouldn’t fall under this rule. Shouldn’t it be a legal standard not to apply new rules retroactively?
There are no legal standards anymore, when everything is at the whim of one single person.
It should. But the in the American empire you better pray they don't alter the deal any further.
US Gov acknowledges that 100K fee does not apply to existing H-1B visas holders [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45318060 - Sept 2025 (43 comments)
Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45314906 - Sept 2025 (108 comments)
New H-1B visa fee will not apply to existing holders, official says - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45316226 - Sept 2025 (3 comments)
Also recent and related:
Trump to impose $100k fee for H-1B worker visas, White House says - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45305845 - Sept 2025 (1675 comments)
The H-1B Visa Program and Its Impact on the U.S. Economy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45309740 - Sept 2025 (51 comments)
At least for now, who knows if that'll change down the road.
Some further googling led me to "totalization agreements" and then it's per country.
It looks like India (for example) may not have such an agreement, but say Austriallia has it. That to be said, it's all news to me, so might be completely wrong here
I guess we'll be seeing someone new and unfamiliar...
(edit: the vendor workers might be in USA on TN status and might be okay for now, I haven't asked)
I guess they really do want foreigners to move out of the US.
It gets harder and harder to have skin pigment, speak another language, or god forbid want to come to the USA under this insane administration.
It is a very clear case of "my way or the highway".
Having to say to 'UPR' and other anti-atlantist militants 'you were absolutely right' was difficult I will admit.
Never heard of either of these 2 terms. What are these?
Anti-atlantist might also be read as Anti-Atlanticist or Anti-Western. Probably some form of pro-Russia or pro-China sentiment in this context.
Or goto Canada and pay even more than the U.S. in taxes and take-home much less.
Who wants these 500k/year salaries in the U.S. anyway?
Meanwhile, big tech is sitting on piles of money. I think startups and scale ups will suffer a lot here.
¢¢
–– Citizen, former Data Center Electrician (still blue collar — I'll eagerly do the work if paid citizen-wages!)
And this is what they are doing to those people, who followed all the rules, did everything right.
That tells you everything you need to know about the intentions of this admin.
> Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.
Congress shouldn’t be writing this sort of broad language into its laws. Congress has delegated a ton of power to the executive and now Trump is going to pressure test it. The current Supreme Court will decide this clause is wide enough to drive an iceberg through.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182?utm_source=ch...
Business uncertainty is off the charts when any administration can change existing policy at a whim and on short notice, for any kind of sunk costs.
The whim makes it uncertain, the short notice makes it unmanageable, and the sunk-cost makes it unavoidable.
It's this uncertainty that fuels government corruption, by creating an undifferentiated need to make nice and comply.
At each step, it will be cheaper for companies to join than to resist, and companies that resist will get oversized responses as a warning to others. That makes joining corruption an economic necessity.
This is how Putin organized and subjugated Russian oligarchs and the elites.
see e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45313274 in this thread
There are so many active H-1B visa holders, now everyone is just anxious. The rules can start for new visa applications. For existing holders, there should be a time period where people can figure out if the employer is even able to pay.
If this stays in effect for existing visa holders and the employers cannot pay in time or wants to change the contract, the individuals and their families are stuck. Plus, employees probably lose their job if employer cannot pay the fees.
POSIWID
This is what the system wants
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/trumps-unusual-nvid...
Even if he does, there is damage here that will not be undone.
We need to stop treating this monster like a wayward child.
And for anyone who is supporting this - Sorry to burst your bubble but just like everything done by this admin so far it is not going to tide over the American job problem.
First, Secretary of Homeland Security has a discretion. It means companies can graft/lobby him to get exception. Maybe shops like Infosys might not get one but Tesla can get one under the garb of supporting American manufacturing.
Second, companies are going to find ways to get that exception. Consulting shops can always open a subsidiary with all American front and lobby for exception.
Third, consulting shops can always bill their customers - maybe partial amounts - that is American companies. Or they can encourage to offshore even more. "You can now save $X + 100k if you offshore".
So and so forth. You need a thoughtful policy not a blunt instrument like this.
"punishing 100 innocents to full extent of the law and then justify the action if 1 criminal is presented?"
If it ends, it ends. There’s plenty of American CS graduates desperate for jobs here at home too. Tired of hearing stories about people who have been unable to land any kind of CS job due to low hiring and AI making them irrelevant. We need to support these people and H1B programs absolutely don’t help. I hope the foreigners will understand, and not take it too personally.
edit: but also, if you’re an H1B who gamed the system through consulting agencies to beat the lottery, screw you. Your fraud has taken opportunities from both, Americans and legit H1B applicants.
Of course us foreigners take it personally... Are you serious? How is this understandable?
Now instead of 500 applications for 1 interview. Maybe, jobs vs labor will return to a normal balance.
My roommate in 2018 was an Indian here on an H1-B. He was working for a large consulting firm. (You've heard of it.) I don't recall his title but it was sort of an SRE/infrastructure position. He was a relatively conservative guy himself, in terms of his views, and a huge fan of America. He delighted in being here. He bought a brand new Mustang because it was the iconic American car. We weren't particularly close friends, but we got along okay.
In the spring of 2018, he went back to India for the first time in several years, for about a month. His return flight date came and went and I didn't hear from him until the next day: He was back in India. He'd landed in Chicago, and CBP had pulled him aside. They said his documents were flawed and he was to be deported. They said he had lied about where he was moving for his job. When he pointed out that he hadn't, they said, well, your employer didn't tell us everything they were supposed to when you moved.
He asked to see documents he had with him, or call his managers. They said no. He asked for time to go online and get his employment details. They said no. The only options he were given was: 1) Admit he'd lied, and be deported but not banned from the US, or, 2) deny he'd lied, and be deported and banned for five years. Indignant, he refused to "admit" to anything. He was deported. His entire life in the US was summarily destroyed. I spent a great deal of time helping him get his possessions either sold or shipped to him, and on the phone, I had to explain to him that he likely hadn't done anything wrong - it wasn't his fault. This was how our system had been set up to work.
About two years later, a judge concluded that there had not, in fact, been any issues with his employer or him that were material. The deportation was ruled to have been illegitimate. But by that point, he'd been back in India for years, and it was now COVID. He's probably never coming back to the US. We lost our chance to have him, because a couple of individual CBP agents in Chicago made a bad call one day in 2018 and wouldn't take no for an answer.
Even if you believe in controlling and limiting immigration, even if you think that we should only bring the best and brightest and then only in limited numbers, even if you think everyone who crosses the border illegally is a criminal, there is nothing just in what happened in this case. If you are such a person, and you think the people in power are on your side, I urge you to look at what they're actually doing over what they say they're doing. There's no justice in what happened in this case; if even legal immigrants have such limited due process and can have their lives so utterly destroyed, what rights do any of us imagine we have?
https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html
Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
Labor Power is Suppressed
Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
These are all elements of fascism, and is directly on display. We are living in a country being invaded by fascists from within the republican party.
And to my knowledge, no fascist government willingly cedes power. All have required extreme violence (aka war) to oust them. And most also have done so with Communist and Socialist allies (see Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, et merde).
In a way, it might be safer for the H1B's abroad to stay away. Wish I had an exit plan as well.
Isn't this making labor more powerful since it's restricting competition from overseas?
A presidential candidate should be able to campaign on "normal foreign relations", "independent authorities", "functioning government", "decorum in politics", "balanced budget", etc. shouldn't they? Maybe 10 years ago that would seem like obvious things you wouldn't mention. But now you should be able to win an election on _only_ that.
Lots of bad decisions were made over the last few decades, now we are living in the result.
There are a fair bit of international flights in the 10-12 hour range. Add some time to pack, get to airport, baggage check, get through security & how the flight times line up and this seems calculated in a way that is precisely not doable. Never mind people not perpetually online and only seeing this a couple hours later
Meanwhile there is to my knowledge no reason why this couldn't have been 48 hours. Still fast, but doable for anyone suitably determined.
This should be a bill introduced in Congress, discussed in committee, voted on, and enacted with a date months in the future when it goes into effect, so that people, companies and government agencies can prepare and plan ... you know like an country with laws and procedures.
How does that result in a fee for re-entering on a valid existing visa? Is this less about formal policy and more about Microsoft hedging against the possibility of chaotic and arbitrary enforcement? Which seems not-unlikely when a large bureaucracy has a rule change dropped on it with 24 hours to implement…
Hanlon's razor. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Regardless of what you think about the wisdom of the policy itself, implementing it rapidly is...probably not the best decision. But it's also par for the course for this administration.
It's not clear to me that this is an intended consequence of the policy change, or just Microsoft's attorneys being conservative in the face of chaos. A plain-text reading of the EO does not support the interpretation that people with existing H1B visas would be subject to the restrictions, but rather, seems like an ambiguity in the wording that a conservative lawyer could interpret in that manner:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/09/rest...
> Section 1. Restriction on Entry. (a) Pursuant to sections 212(f) and 215(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), 8 U.S.C. 1182(f) and 1185(a), the entry into the United States of aliens as nonimmigrants to perform services in a specialty occupation under section 101(a)(15)(H)(i)(b) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(15)(H)(i)(b), is restricted, except for those aliens whose petitions are accompanied or supplemented by a payment of $100,000 — subject to the exceptions set forth in subsection (c) of this section.
Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45313510 and marked it off topic.
And, economically, I think it'll be fine. Won't it be great for the rest of the world to share in the economic success of the US? I'm looking forward to a day when most nations have their own bay area.
Btw, I've changed the HN title to reflect the article's title now. Submitted title was "Visa holders on vacation have 15 hours to return to US or pay $100k fee". I don't know if the article said that when you submitted it (news outlets sometimes update article titles as more information emerges), or if you rewrote the title, but if it was the latter, please don't do that—it's against HN's guidelines. See https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html: "Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize."
I was about to wistfully wish Biden or Obama pushed for this, but it’s clear they were too deep in the tech industry’s pockets.
Not sure how this administration intends on addressing the off-shore response though.
Giving people 15 hours of notice is incompetent and a dick move.
This is a large net negative for 3 sectors that I can currently think of:
- American (software) tech workers - Healthcare - Research / Postgrad
Medicine and Research are fairly self explanatory, however, why the American software tech worker?
Let's say you're Microsoft, you have large offices all over the world - instead of hiring in the US and making those departments in US offices bigger, you're going to instead hire in probably the following places:
- UK - Australia - South Asia
It means less focus in the US which eventually will just become sales and marketing only with perhaps some smaller department sized tech jobs.
Another great Trump strategy that appears to be helping the poor whites but actually shafts them.
A sudden $100,000 per year increase on every H1B salary is a big deal.
When you say South Asia could you expand on what specific countries you mean? I think South Asia could mean a few things to a few different people which is why I ask.
> It means less focus in the US which eventually will just become sales and marketing only with perhaps some smaller department sized tech jobs.
As an American I'm curious about this, can you expand on how this will happen or how you think it might happen? If I recall correctly the figure for active H1B visa holders in the United States is under 1 million, so are you asserting that those visa holders all or mostly leave the United States and then the tech jobs that remain will be small in number are most folks working at companies like Google or Microsoft will just be working in sales and marketing? If that's not what you meant to say could you expand?
Non cancerous link to the source.
I do think we need a visa category for people who have completed an education in the US. Yes, there's OPT for certain fields for F1 visa holders but it's not enough.
But all that's a part of broader immigration reform that simply won't happen, particularly in this political climate.
As horrible as this all is for those affected, particularly for people who have been waiting patiently in line for 10-20 years, it's also true that:
1. There absolutely is H1B visa abuse, specifically by the bodyshops like Infosys and Tata;
2. H1Bs are used to suppress wages for the entire workforce; and
3. In an era of permanent layoffs and high unemployment in the tech sector, preference should absolutely be given to existing US permanent residents and citizens. That's the declared intent of the H1B program but the reality hasn't really worked that way.
The employers have brought this on themselves and ordinary people will suffer because of it. I do think that if you layoff more than 2% of your staff in any given year, you should be unable to sponsor any visa for a period of 2+ years.
There's already enough of a problem of foreigners enrolling in low-quality or even basically-fraudulent American higher education programs, specifically because their goal is to do whatever they can to get legal residency in the United States rather than gain an education only available in the US or contribute to American intellectual life. Such a visa category would exacerbate this problem.
Populations of most countries offshore the blame for the lack of economic opportunity or social conditions where they live. I don’t blame the common folk, it’s the leaders and elite of such places who are responsible for their countries relative success or failure.
Because we in the US largely care about making our country better. And pulling the best and brightest out of other countries has historically been considered a good deal for us or even an explicit 'Brain Drain the Soviets' strategy.
This admin and the people in charge today have forgotten about this and now we are left with our multi decade system getting wrecked.
This is not about emigration. Frankly, as a European I would find moving to the US a serious downgrade in living quality.
We hopefully have a different ethical structure. Extreme racists are largely a minority in the west, whereas birth naturally defining your life is simply common sense in some of the countries that we accept the most immigrants from. I'd be more inclined to accept people who are escaping that structure (like Mexicans, for example, who are running over the border instead of flying into six-figure jobs), but those who are coming here are from the class who have the most say in the conditions of the poor in their own countries.
The descendants of compradors, still winning, but playing the racist card because they know the US is still sensitive about what they did to black people, and how they never made up for it. Most of the immigrants I know are racist, and will explain why not being racist is stupid, at length.
I'm surprised how divisive such a decision seems to be considering our current reality of a contracting industry (employment wise)
If Indian developer cannot obtain a visa in Microsoft they will simply recruit the same person to the office in India.
And how many times have we heard that you can’t time the market
Can you call the bottom ?
Change "Some" to "All major employers". I worked at a fortune 500 company in IT and all they hired were H1B employees over the past 15/20 years. The last raise we got that was above inflation and health insurance increases was before 2000. I left 2 years ago and after I left they fired almost everyone in the IT Dept I was in and replaced them with H1B.
So I hope this sticks. Plus remember, H1B people should make a fair wage too, all too often their salary is set by their contracting firm and is far far lower then what we got.
But regardless, I sincerely hope this policy sticks without any loopholes. This policy will only incentivise companies to move more of their operations to other countries and only keep the bare minimum in US to keep their US business thriving.
Even if you like this policy as an end goal, the implementation is pants on head stupid.