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Comment by danbruc | Hacker News Reader

The German policy of more or less unconditional support for Israel is plain stupid. This policy exists because of the horrors that Germans have inflicted upon Jews but it now supports similar [1] horrors inflicted by Israelis upon Palestinians. I can not wrap my head around that. If anything, Germany should try to stop Israel with all available means to protect them from themselves. Germany should do the same as Ireland and so should everyone else.

[1] Feel free to mentally replace similar with any other word that you think more accurately compares the two scenarios.

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It's very easy to wrap your head around - Germany is Israel's main arms supplier after the US.

Germany accounted for 30% of Israel's arms imports between 2019 and 2023. In 2023 it accounted for 47% of Israel's total imports of conventional arms.

Between October 2023 and May 2025, Germany greenlighted the delivery of weapons and military equipment worth €485m to Israel

They since stopped the export of weaponry 'used in gaza' but it's naive in the extreme to accept assurances from the incumbent Israeli government to the contrary.

https://news.sky.com/story/germany-is-one-of-israels-stronge...

N.B. Israel continues to illegally carry weapons through Irish airspace, and kindly refers our government agency to El Al's Legal department on inquiry.

https://www.ontheditch.com/israels-national-airline-departme...

That does not seem like nearly enough money to make a bad policy decision because of the money and that policy is probably much older than the arms deals.

> That does not seem like nearly enough money

Because that's not the reason (Israel primarily imports weaponry and munitions from the US and India [0]).

The issue is the other way around. A significant portion of Germany's ground AD and defensive systems are sourced from Israel- most notably the Arrow 3 missile shield [1] deal that recently went through. Germany is heavily dependent on Israeli cybersecurity companies as well [2]. Germany is also subsidizing Arrow 3 sales to Ukraine [3].

Protecting your nations citizens always trumps morality, and in Germany's case, it's become even more critical after what happened in Poland this week.

[0] - https://oec.world/en/visualize/tree_map/hs17/import/isr/show...

[1] - https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2025/06/09/israel-...

[2] - https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/germany-s...

[3] - https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/israel-sells-missiles-to-ge...

Yeah, but Europeans countries never miss a chance to lecture other countries about morality.

Politicians will always politick, but they do not tend to be the ones who make policy in a parliamentary system like Germany of Ireland.

Ireland basically has no army, and is entirely dependent on the UK for it's defense. As such, their politicans are free to say whatever (as long as it is not against the UK) because it's not going to come back and bite them in the behind. That said, that's now changing as the UK is trying to renegotiate the deal [0][1]

[0] - https://www.thejournal.ie/british-ireland-defence-agreement-...

[1] - https://www.irishpost.com/news/britain-and-ireland-to-renew-...

The Irish strategy is to make the pubs too attractive for any attacker to bother with armed conflict. ;)

The Irish position should not be underestimated. It tends to be a bellweather for what others will align with in the future. Ireland tends to use it's soft power very effectively at the global table.

Also, Ireland knows a thing or two about what it is like to be oppressed

> The Irish position should not be underestimated. It tends to be a bellweather for what others will align with in the future

This really overstates Ireland's position in foreign policy studies. No one at Bruegel, ECFR, Institute Montaigne, GMFUS, and the 2-3 other major EU think tanks that are the de facto voice of European policy are taking Irish policy into account. Ireland lost any chance it had of being at the table when the Eurozone crisis happened. Even Spain and Italy have barely rebuilt their credibility.

> Ireland tends to use it's soft power very effectively at the global table

How? Ireland barely comes up in most conversations aside from using IDA Ireland as a model for attracting services FDI.

Citing the Eurozone crisis as if we were analogous on an economic or policy level to Spain/Italy/Greece is just farcical in the extreme. Given our population of ~5 Million we're probably punching above our capita to the largest extent of any EU member-state. Hell, even the Asylum laws governing Europe are named after us:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Regulation

We are also the only EU country where the Constitution ordains a referendum to validate ratification of any amendments that result in a transfer of sovereignty to the European Union; such as the Nice Treaty which we can prevent from passing on an EU level.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Nice#The_Irish_refer...

Putting aside the multiple times we have held EU Council Presidencies, how about you take our two-year term on the UN Security Council from 2021 to 2022, where we got UN Security Council Resolution 2594 passed – the first ever Resolution on UN Peacekeeping transitions.

Since 1958, Ireland has maintained a constant presence on UN and UN-mandated peace support operations to the point where many English speakers in the South Lebanon do so with an Irish accent. 86 Irish soldiers have died in service of the UN since 1960.

We also have a particular legacy regarding the IDF and war crimes - Like in 1996 UN position 6-52, near Maroun al-Ras, a platoon of 33 Irish troops was surrounded and isolated from UN headquarters by a mechanised IDF unit. Or in May of this year when Irish peacekeepers in Lebanon came under fire from Israeli forces near a bombed out village at Yaroun

https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-peacekeepers-in-lebanon-fire...

We have lost almost 50 troops in Lebanon alone. Approximately 50% of our casualties have been inflicted by Islamist resistance groups such as Hezbollah – the other 50% by the IDF and their paramilitary proxies in the area.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/15/un-pea...

UNIFIL and Irish peacekeepers were so effective that UNIFIL is disbanded as of next year

It's frustrating because Israelis and Jews are distinct peoples. This unwavering support for Israel doesn't even necessarily help Jews.

The Ultra-Orthodox can't even join the IDF. The issue is that the US HR Bill passed which legally equated Anti-Zionism with Anti-Semitism, and the US control the narrative in the english-speaking world around the Genocide. It's Orwellian in the extreme.

https://www.thefire.org/news/combat-anti-semitism-house-bill...

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/1/us-house-passes-cont...

conflating jews with israel is biggest anti semitic thing one can do

This statement betrays a deep lack of imagination about other things one could do against Jews. Killing them, for instance, or putting them in concentration camps are both far worse than any association you might choose to make with Israel.

I would argue it doesn't, because both cases are examples of guilt by association. One is history, the other is manufactured by israel

right shouldve said one of the biggest poor wording

> but it now supports similar [1] horrors inflicted by Israelis upon Palestinians

I would say that Israel is historically worried about the fact that his enemies want it to make it disappear. There are many things to criticize from them but this is the basic premise.

But the solution to that is not making some other people disappear in order to make some room for Jews. And they have already stolen half of Palestine and turned it into their own state and that state is - despite its illegal origin - now internationally recognized and therefore unlikely to be undone. They just have to be satisfied with what they took and stop attempting to take the rest of Palestine, too.

I'd say the people that are historically and actively actually being disappeared are the Palestinians, the premise is that Israel since inception wants (edit: is) to eradicate Palestinians

If they wanted that, it would have happened already.

That's precisely why it's happening, unfortunately

It seems they no longer care if their actions make the general public sympathetic to this cause, which is rather troubling for a bystander.

Do you think that historical worry justifies the tens of thousands of children they are currently killing?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2025/israel...

Germany also felt guilty about the invasion of Russia. I understand this to be one of the reasons why Germany was keen to buy Russian guess, to make amends.

On the flip side Germany did a huge amount to bring solar power into large scale usage.

Remember there are are radical nationalist / racist / xenophobic groups in germany / anywhere.

Such groups are so strong in Germany that Hitler used them to strenghten the power of his discourse.

Recognizing Israel / the Jews are the ones now doing Genocide would *in the sight of the extremist groups* prove their belief that Hitler was right / the Jews are the devil. (I repeat, in their regard, not mine)

Therefore, my opinion is that the official stance in Germany must be "historical responsability" mainly not for the sake of the Jews, but for the stability of the society.

Don't you think there's a risk that denying a genocide everyone can see with their own eyes will feed into antisemitic conspiracy theories?

Yes, they are alreading sharpening their forks and oiling their torches. I think officially recognizing it ("Jews are bad") will drive normal people to don't consider them (the extremists / nazi) conspiracy nuts anymore, because of a "they / we were right all the time" discourse.

I apologize for basically repeating myself. I just wanted to refer to the conspiracy theories you mentioned because calling them that is, ironically, constructive.

Officially recognizing the genocide is not the same as saying "Jews are bad".

You'd think those suffering genocide would do the one thing to stop it, namely releasing the hostages and ceasing their own officially chartered genocidal ambitions.

Can’t get rid of your jews if there is no place to move them to since Auschwitz is no longer an option.

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