"And the cook?" "What?"
"The cook wants in on the no-tax-on-tips so we're asking how much you'd like to tip him. We're also going to ask for the cleaner and the guy who delivered the ingredients earlier this morning."
In Brazil we have 10% tip which you can opt out, and we usually do it when there is a problem with the service, but I wouldn't think twice to ask for the tip to be excluded if I was undergoing financial hardships, and I'm sure nobody would bat an eye.
I think it's not just the tip culture that is toxic. I feel like the entire American culture is plagued by toxic masculinity, the gun culture and hyper individuality.
Opting not to tip when it is part of the economic transaction is no different from walking out with the silverware; not expressly forbidden, just a breach of social contract.
And walking out with silverware is theft, I genuinely have no idea where you pulled that from as a similar example.
There's lots of evidence that tips vary significantly based on the traits of the customer (like the customer's self-esteem and sense of shame: https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/ijchm-02...) and the employee asking for the tip (e.g. attractiveness and simple demographic characteristics: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01674...).
Isn't property theft very expressly forbidden?
Well, shit, if I made it part of the economic transaction, you'd have a point. What you're saying is that the employers are not holding up their end of the transaction.
Let me put it another way for my foreign friends - if you are dining at a restaurant in America with table service, you need to consider (at least) a 15% tip as part of the base cost. If you can't afford that, then you can't afford to eat out, choose a different option.
Why chef who is actually prepping your dish got fixed rate but pretty girl should get percentage of the total bill?
If I order a $100 bottle of wine, should I add $10 for the delivery from wine room? And extra 5$ for the opening? And $5 for refill?
And lo, norms are made, the ratchet turns, culture solidifies, a new line written to the social contract. And tip-dependent workers have non-optional tipping.
If you really want a logic to follow strictly — any worker class whose wages are depressed by expected tipping should be tipped
Wouldn't it make far more sense to just pay them a living wage and charge what that costs and be done? It's genuinely the only part of eating out that annoys me is it ends with a math quiz.
This actually varies state by state. In Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington the minimum wage does not change tipped vs non-tipped. Also in other states if the pay after tips do not meet the state minimum wage the employer is required to make up this difference.
If you actually look at the data tipped employees make significantly more vs median income in countries with tipping than without.
> If you can't afford that, then you can't afford to eat out, choose a different option.
I think this works if we're talking about a full restaurant, If we're talking about a mostly empty restaurant then even a 5% tip is money that the server would have not otherwise had, pretty certain they'd choose more money over less.
Actually, if tips don't bring tipped minimum wage to minimum wage, employers are required to increase pay to minimum wage.
You would rather be let go for performance reasons rather than they will pay you difference in 5$
In theory the federal or state department of labor could do something without the worker needing a lawyer. The federal DoL is useless in such cases and most state DoLs don't seem to do much either.
No, I don't need to do anything. Restaurants are free to charge a service fee and state that plainly on the menu, as many already do. Otherwise it's optional and I will treat it as such.
But I personally have chosen a different option because it's just exploitive all the way around. The business trying to exploit it's employees, the employees exploiting customers (10% being pushed up to 15%).
No, it is not true for California
Americans pride themselves on their rugged individuality but deep down it is all very collectivist.
Several restaurant owners are advocating in Italy to make 20% tips mandatory so they can reduce their costs.
What you're referring to as "tip", is the coperto. It's a minimal, fixed, optional fee that includes service, bread and table setting.
Not every place makes you pay it, it's more common in more expensive restaurants, but still, it ranges from 0 to an average 2 euros per person.
Comparing it to %-based mandatory tips in US is nonsense.
You can see this difference in customer experience worldwide. Nowhere delivers consistently attentive service quite like the US. By contrast, many European countries, especially those where tipping is uncommon (such as the Netherlands), often provide service that feels efficient but impersonal.
You want to have a stress free experience the waiters tries to upsell you at every corner.
If you mistake upselling for attention then you're part of the tipping complex already.
Good service comes from good training and experience not the assumed money left over in your wallet. That's the businesses goal of not leaving any money on the table. So the alignment is between the business owner and the employee if anything, not between employee and customer.
I would make an exception for bars, but that's about it.
The correlation is simple. The better the perceived service from the customer, the bigger the tip is.
>You want to have a stress free experience the waiters tries to upsell you at every corner.
In the vast majority of restaurants the server has little interest in upselling you. The exception is, perhaps, at a place with an expensive wine list (and regardless of tipping, businesses will be looking to upsell that wine list).
>Good service comes from good training and experience not the assumed money left over in your wallet.
Speaking as someone with industry experience, this is honestly just funny to read.
Training? For a server? Lol!
These are by and large scrappy people (and I say this lovingly). Lots of cursing, dubious substances, people working hella long hours in other jobs, people who are just planning on working for a few weeks and then leaving, etc. Yet when a big table comes in, they button up and act perfectly, despite cursing about the customers in the back, and the incentive is not "up selling" (servers care about seat count and nothing else - that's how the hierarchy of the seating pecking order is structured) it's about tip money.
Good service doesn't come from experience either. The newest servers will basically give the best service (they're nice to everyone), while often the most experienced servers are the most jaded and cranky. It's a rough job to be part of long term and it breaks you down a bit.
Also, regulars who tip well are truly appreciated by the service staff, and the staff really does go out of their way to make sure they get good service. This is because of the steady, predictable income stream. I don't know what to tell you other than, yes, the tip money absolutely does play a large part in the customer experience, and there is a correlation.
I have found this to be true in pretty much all interactions (on average), regardless of whether the person is on a tipped wage.
Americans value salesmanship and customer service in ways that few other countries I've been to do. They market better, they sell better, they make customers feel better, in pretty much all types of businesses.
Source: someone who's lived in three major US metropolitan areas, and two in the EU.
Dining out in Italy is phenomenal for many reasons, a laid back serving culture is just one of them.
Do people tip their accountants? Their nurses and doctors? Their dentist? Their mechanic? The cashier at the grocery store? The clerk at the shoe store who fetches the shoe in the size/colour I want?
Perhaps people should just do their jobs properly because that is what they're paid to do. And if they're not doing their jobs such that the restaurant/business suffers in its reputable they get fired and replaced by someone who will. (Kind of like how I have to do the job I'm paid to in IT or the company will act accordingly if I do not.)
Then I'm the bad guy for refusing to pay for something I didn't want in the first place.
Make your driver’s day, they’ll see your tip before they accept your ride”
This reminds me of the old Soviet union where the rates were fixed by some central committee. In order to get a cab to pick you up, you would hold up fingers that represented how much extra you would tip. The more fingers, the more likely the drivers would actually stop.
But why exactly ?
Besides, I’d rather have efficient and impersonal than (at best) fake nice.
And you think other hourly service workers aren't being that way to some degree? Lol.
Like plumbers, electricians, mechanics, carpenters/framers?
This paragraph reads like it was written by someone who’s never been to planet earth but has diligently read documentation on how it works.
I personally _hate_ American service with passion.
I prefer to be left alone most of the time in restaurants or not being talked to like the best friend I haven’t seen from the high school.
I also have an expectation that the waiter is not in a desperate position to rely on a tip for their living and is fairly compensated by their base salary.
My preference isn't necessarily for American-style service, that's just an assumption you'd be making with zero information.
Tipping should be illegal to substitute for pay. Majority-tipped restaurants are almost always predatory and take advantage of both customers and employees in order to further enrich the owners.
My single reference is the Norwegian upscale restaurant Theatercafeen, which introduced tip pooling across waiters and kitchen. It was highly contentious when introduced by the restaurant: The waiters took the case to the courts, and it went all the way to the supreme court of Norway [1], where it was decided that the employer could decide rules for tip-sharing.
[1]: https://www.arbeidsrettsadvokater.no/domstolsnytt/dom-deling...
A utilitarian only interested in pure food quality is much better off cooking at home. You can do better at a quarter the price.
Food/software is only about 25% of the cost and value in these businesses, though perceptions on value differ of course.
There's always this narrative about tipping allowing for exceptional service and I wanted to know what meta advantages or options have you been given or seen as a result of this?
I'm reminded by Charlie Sheen's character in two and a half men consistently tipping the pizza delivery driver who brings him a champagne bottle with his pizza.
As a comparison elsewhere, I've had French wait staff bring me bread at the table whenever I visit Paris and even if the restaurant is out they source it from nearby restaurants unprompted with no expectation of a tip even though I would perceive that as being above and beyond service.
I'm trying to understand if we're all on the same page about great and even exceptional service :)
However, I'm not at all convinced this is as tied to tipping as people claim. My own country has a very clear and old tipping culture (though 10% is the more common "target" tip for food service), and yet service here is often terrible, with bored and annoyed waiters. I think it's much more of a cultural norm than any kind of strong economic incentives.
The most common difference: restaurant wait staff aggressively removing plates as soon as or before you are done with them. While in Europe that obviously would be rushed and seen as overly aggressive and a hint that it's time to get the hell out to make space for other dinners. Super rude in Europe, considered attentive service in the US.
Striking experience: At an allegedly "five star" resort in the US, some wait staff being very loud and chummy with the guests to the point of disturbing the guests, and other guests, and neglecting other tables! Inconceivable in Europe - reserved for top management or owners. And failures to pay attention left and right - by all the staff everywhere. Clearly blameable on management defining the wrong parameters as objectives to their staff.
Tipping in the US is entirely hit or miss: some staff will remember past tipping, but only some. Some staff make a visible effort at service (before tipping), but only some. Etc.
But to be fair, there was a time when service in Paris got so bad and rude that the waiters corporation ran ad campaigns asking them to cut it out and do better. French service still has a bad reputation (of rudeness and scams). And there, it's very much NOT that waiters don't know what to do and not do. They know.
I would see working out "out of bread" with the neighbors as normal when the restaurant is not super busy, and "above and beyond" at rush hours. But then in France, running out of bread before very late in rush hours would be a clear management failure.
Remember, servers are dealing with the average American. A decent portion of the people that come in are extremely demanding. /Three rounds of sauce on the side in different configurations... Can I have the sauce from that dish on the other table on the side of my dish? Oh it's part of the cooking process? Can you ask the chef if he can put it in a little ramekin? Oh it's a sickly sweet glaze that needs to be cooked? I think I'll try a little bit of it anyway. Ewww this is disgusting take this back!
Dealing with this day in and day out will default you to that service state after a while, especially because the "average working class Americans" often tip the best.
Every server knows screwing up the actual food nukes their tip (and it often does). If they're working in that context and still messing that up, well, they probably can't be helped.
I want them to check in to ensure that the order was (a) correct, and (b) properly cooked.
There may be instances in which you drop some cutlery or need an extra napkin, and a quick check-in could be useful. You could also flag them down with a raised hand or eye contact. A busser could achieve the same results too (also refilling water glasses).
None for me.