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Comment by sgt101 | Hacker News Reader

EV's look like EV's because they don't have the same constraints on space that ICEV's do. There is no engine in the front/back, no water pump, no oil pump, no water cooled radiator, no starter motor... so on so on. There's also a great big battery under the floor pan and no gas tank.

They are also heavier, so need different set ups in order to handle decently.

But, that's why they look so different.

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They tend to handle better than ICE cars due to the low centre of mass (also the fact the big mass - the battery - is firmly bolted to the frame and not wobbling around on rubber mounts like an engine does). These are both big advantages in terms of dynamics. Couple that with the much faster powertrain response and many options to do torque vectoring to each wheel (individual motors on sports models) and it's an easy win for EVs. Then we get to the potential for fan-assisted downforce (e.g. McMurtry Spéirling) and it's even more blatant. ICEs are still better at endurance, though.

People way overstate the "dynamics" advantages of EVs

Yes EVs can keep their weight low, but it's a lot more weight to deal with.

Yes EVs have excellent 0-60, but that's just because they have a great launch. Even doing a 5-60 pull removes the EV advantage. Starting from highway speeds? EVs start to look real slow.

There are some good traits to EVs but, outside of launching hard in street car trim, performance is not one of them.

I find highway acceleration is their main strength actually. Going from "just cruising" to max acceleration is basically instant, unlike a gearbox having to go down 2-3 gears (depending on how hard you press the pedal) and hope it chose the right gear, or manually downshifting (block shifts work with a proper manual gearbox but that's a pain the rest of the time; going down 3 gears sequentially on an automatic is usually not a good time).

> People way overstate the "dynamics" advantages of EVs

It is noticeable, though.

> Yes EVs can keep their weight low, but it's a lot more weight to deal with.

Define a lot? It's a few hundred pounds, excepting pickups.

> Starting from highway speeds? EVs start to look real slow.

Maybe a Leaf or a Bolt. But I would be happy to put my Model 3LR or F-150 Lightning up against something like a Camaro SS or Mustang GT from a highway roll -- I'll still win.

That 0-10mph response is way too twitchy in most EVs i've ridden. The old teslas were not like this. I'm not sure what package my friends model 3 is or if it comes down to his lead foot but I feel nauseous in that car. Its a combination of that instant torque and the suspension sort of feeling like one of those play horses on a spring you see in playgrounds.

There's something wrong with your friend's model 3. If I stand on my accelerator it goes straight (if set straight) and the suspension (set on sport) is hard.

It's not M5 BMW hard, but it's hard. I guess that if you have a performance variant then maybe it would be.

It could just be thats how it is in cars that twitchy. I don't have really any experience with anything so powerful. Fastest car I've owned is only a 7 second 0-60 car.

No, just skill. Some people are not great at operating the controls and the instant response from an electric motor is exposing their driving style. If it's a Tesla, have them switch to chill mode. Forces them to be smooth.

> if it comes down to his lead foot

Yes. Some people are binary drivers, regardless of drivetrain. But a very responsive EV, especially something like a Tesla Performance trim in sport mode or F-150 Lightning in sport mode, with an unskilled driver can definitely make you seasick. Most drivers who can modulate the pedal do just fine, though.

The only real problem with Teslas is that they don't have an option to go without one pedal driving. Some drivers really aren't suited for 1PD, frankly.

You won't reach the limits of weight and handling of EVs when driving on public roads in ways that don't risk jail time.

Most people don't take their old Toyota to a race track, so they don't need their Leaf to beat a Lambo either.

The instant 0-30mph is the biggest advantage in day to day driving.

Now I want street versions of the Speirling.

No. It’s 100% a design choice by the manufacturer to make them look weird.

Even with the benefits of EV packaging, manufacturers chose to make them “different” on purpose, which really put off the vast majority of buyers. Tesla had so much success because they were practically the first manufacturer to make something look somewhat normal and have good stats.

Now, BMW finally learned and has their 4 and 5 series EV cars share a common platform with the ICE. There is no physical difference in style other than the front grill.

This is just what the contemporary Nissan ICE cars looked like.

The first gen leaf got a lot of commentary about this "EV look" and the contemporary Nissan Note had a similar front end. And then both got 2nd gens that evolved similarly.

Their Juke could be an overinflated Leaf at a glance etc.

Wikipedia photos:

1st gen:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Note#/media/File:2005_N...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf#/media/File:2017_N...

2nd gen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Note#/media/File:Nissan...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf#/media/File:Nissan...

That wouldn't explain the unorthodox color schemes lots of smaller EVs like the i3 have. It really seems they are made uglier 'on purpose'. Also, a Tesla model S or 3 looks like a normal car so it's not other brands can't do that.

VW's first-gen EVs, the eGolf and later eUp, looked basically just like the Golf and Up. This lead people to believe that VW did not make electric cars (a lot of people thought the ID.3/4 were their first). The market _wants_ electric cars to be a bit weird-looking.

I don't buy that. The eGolf was impopular due to its tiny range, eUp was too expensive for something that's basically a glorified shopping kart. People are well aware VW had electric cars, and the ID3/4 also don't look that weird to me just as Tesla, Hyundai Kona/Kia Niro don't.

What the market wants is cars that are cheap to drive, practical and fast. While there are people wanting to make a statement with their car I can't believe that's a majority. The overwhelming amount of cars in my city belongs to the cheap/practical category.

I think the Tesla looking like a normal car is because their design language hasn't changed in forever.

I've found myself taking a second look at a bunch of ICE cars recently as they've all started trying to copy elements from electric car design...

The only difference between EV and ICE is less holes in front as they need less air for cooling the radiator. All other things looks similar. How car looks is a design choice not related to the type of engine.

They still have similar constrains - crumple zones for crash protection mean they will never make a 'flat front' again. aerodynamics is also a factor and again places limits on design.

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