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Comment by suddenlybananas | Hacker News Reader

How do we know this was traded? It could easily be bounty captured by the Varangian Guard in wars against Muslim powers.

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I find it interesting that the western silver is supposed, according to the article, to have been “obtained through raids or ransom” but the eastern silver is supposed to demonstrate trade, and that the mixture of the two symbolizes “the fusion of cultures.” The Rus were raiding around the Caspian at the time, including Muslim territory, so it would be interesting to know how the archaeologists ruled out raiding as a source of the eastern silver.

History, like archeology and paleontology, often take a set of facts or evidentiary items and weave a plausible narrative around it. The narrative can be neutral but also can be stereotyped (in archelogy unknowns are assigned religious significance) or they can be influenced by contemporaneous thought --that is, the narrative is allowed to be influenced by the currents of the day. It may take a century or so for those narratives to be dispelled through the passage of time when such influence wanes.

Could it be that if the silver was still in coinage form it demonstrates trade. If the silver was formed into new objects it would imply raided silver. I'm assuming they use isotopes to figure out the origin of the silver.

Yeah it seems a bizarre claim, especially when we have references to Viking raids in Morocco and Seville as well!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_raid_on_Seville

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nekor

Silver coins from the Islamic world were not exactly rare in Scandinavia (e.g. https://www.medievalists.net/2023/11/nearly-500000-dirhams-w...), and trade is a much more likely explanation especially over such large distances. AFAIK trading vs raiding was often just a question of opportunity and might have been done by the same viking/trader group depending on what was more 'convenient' (or: first raid and then setup an adhoc trading point just around the corner to exchange the loot against silver coins because those are easier to carry home - or the classic: do slave raids on the way from Scandinavia to the Black Sea, and trade the captured slaves with the Greeks-slash-East-Romans and Muslims against silver).

Well, that area was 200 years conquered at the time- the usual decay had not set in yet? So my guess is that there where still competent military powers around and working states & organizations. So - better to trade with these then rob a powerful enemy? The vikings where traders/mercenaries when encountering formidable opponents and robbers when they did not..

Yeah but we know they did raid Muslim areas, and furthermore, they often worked with the Byzantines who were often at war with Muslims. It could be just payment for fighting against Muslims from the Byzantines (whether indirect as booty in war or as direct payment from the Byzantines).

This reminds me of a fun multiple choice question from an educational text that I will remember until I die:

How did Mansa Musa contribute to the cultural diffusion of %region%?

Varangians in Yorkshire?

Yorkshire was settled by many Scandinavians at this point, who could have easily served as Varangians before settling in Yorkshire. Harald Hardrada, for example, served many years in the Varagian guard before reclaiming the throne of Norway and then invading England (he was of course, defeated at the Battle of Stamford Bridge in Yorkshire).

Many Anglo-Saxons also served as Varangians as well! Particularly after the Norman conquest however.

I’ll bite. Most of the Vikings that settled England came from Denmark and Norway. Harald was usually well-travelled even for a Viking, having being exiled to Rus, and then later returning. The number of Vikings from Scandinavia who went to Rus, served in the near east, then returned to Scandinavia then invaded England (carrying their loot with them all the way) can’t have been many.

My money, excuse the pun, is on trade. It’s not uncommon for coins from far flung realms to end up in coin hordes. For example Roman coins have been found in Celtic hordes than predate the Roman invasion of Britain by decades.

> The number of Vikings from Scandinavia who went to Rus, served in the near east, then returned to Scandinavia then invaded England (carrying their loot with them all the way) can’t have been many.

I really don't find this that unbelievable, especially when you consider that booty brought back from the Near East could be traded locally by Scandinavians. So it just takes one guy looting the Muslim world for the silver to make it to Scandinavia and then England.

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