We used to say (tongue in cheek) that after 250k, the MB diesel engine was broken in. I don't think MB makes them like they used to anymore.
> I don't think MB makes them like they used to anymore.
You guessed correctly. The 1980's W124 was one of those cars that would keep going and going. Mechanically great, with a galvanized chassis and bodywork that made it also pretty rust resistant.
The 1993 version of the W124, supposed to be an "improved" remodeled version of the original car, was a worst car in every aspect. It rusted, the plastics were cheaper, etc.
The follow-up, the W210, is the model that cost MB dearly. Through cost-cutting and greed, they lost a huge chunk of the taxi market. The car itself was also an absolute rust-bucket piece of cr*p, the interior was also worst, with the whole woes compounded by crappy electronics.
MB as a brand hasn't really recovered from that. The engineering excellency, attention to detail, and engineering pride that made those W123/W124 almost unkillable is lost, and won't be found again.
Only downside is fuel consumption in urban driving.
I didn't have the chance to own a W211, but from what I read and heard, it was indeed an improvement. Even in the looks department!
Not a coincidence, though - these two still use those legendary OM602/OM605 diesels of its predecessor series.
The true "million mile" Mercedes are probably the W123 diesels. Built very solid, they will still rust if you live in areas where road salt is used, but most cars will eventually.
It's weird how some cars are much more prone to rust than others. I had a Toyota truck in the 1980s and it rusted so fast you'd almost swear you could see it happening. Mechanically it never had any problems.
Absolutely. The rust.. The rust..!!
> The true "million mile" Mercedes are probably the W123 diesels.
Yes, for sure. And the W124 diesels.
> It's weird how some cars are much more prone to rust than others
Different levels of anti-rust efforts. Where Mercedes-Benz truly angered their clients, was by coming up with a new model with a lot worse rust properties. (Well, they cut corners on other things as well, like the quality of the interior, but the rust would be the first thing you'd notice.)
MB had the know-how and the processes in place to make a car less susceptible to rust, and just decided to go with the cheaper option, clients and longevity be damned.
I also own a 1999 W210 with the OM606 turbo diesel. This is the electronically controlled and upgraded version of the OM603. I can confirm that the w w210 is plagued with the myriad of problems. But it is still a fairly nice chassis with modern features and once one becomes acustomized with its particular idiosyncrasies it isn't really that horrible. But it's definitely not the tank that the w124 and w123 series chassis were. The primary prize is the OM606 engine. Which is commonly extracted from the W210 chassis and used to repower any number of other vehicles. There are lots of ways to crank tons of horsepower out of these engines, but at the sacrifice of their longevity.
That's the car my father regretted not buying.. He bought the W124 250D when still in Europe, and imported it to the US, assuming it would be a better car, as being built for the German market.
Once he arrived in the US, he found out that the US version was, in fact, much better. With better suspension, double air-conditioning units (if memory serves), all options included, ventilated front discs, etc. And for a lower price.
In hindsight a bad choice, but that type of information was difficult to find in those days..
It's not just a beauty, is working super fine: and never stops. They made the 200D, 250D, 300D with the same engine, just adding one piston.
My friends comes and go from the EU to Turkey (5.000 km) with no issues at all: on the way he stops at a Turkish dealer of auto parts www.brossautoparts.com where he is able to just get the little plastic parts they get ruined (one was a little plastic wheel on the mileage meters they gave him for free 3 months ago).
In the second hand marked you can find this car for 4.000€ which is a totally ridiculous price !
He told me about the right and left mirror, which are not symmetric: Mercedes made a long research on usability and efficacy on mirrors, and discovered the right mirror can and should be smaller and squared (and, of course, remote controlled), while the left mirror was surprisingly preferred controlled by hand, so there is just a stick of metal (a rudimentary joystick) the driver can hold and move.
The sad is that he told me the second and third series had issues (as somebody else wrote already above) with metals, with the plastic on the side, and unfortunately with the electrical wiring (replaced with a more Eco-friendly version which did not last more then 10 years).
Let's remember the designer: the Italian Bruno Sacco, who had to fight a bit to have the new design accepted: the change from w123 to w124 was a big risk, and they made a test with the Mercedes 190 (a smaller version of the w124): which was a great success of the 80s (the coolest car a youngster could have in Italy at that time).
Yes, it is sad that no factories would consider such a good quality product nowadays: I remember what the famous marketing professor Kotler once told Philips and Braun about their reliable electric razors: "So, you find a customer who buys your razor, and then you make it so reliable that he won’t need another one for the next 40 years? Are you crazy?"
I currently own a W210 E300 Turbodiesel. I bought it with 49.5k miles, it currently has 120k. Overall it's been a decent car, the OM606/722.6 drivetrain is great. The rest of it is pretty miserable though. I would like someday to swap this drivetrain into a W124 wagon, with a standalone transmission controller and the injection pump from an OM603 to make the engine fully mechanical.
In the meantime, I'm working on rebuilding a 2.65 rear diff from an SL class car to swap in. I have a TCU from another car that had this final drive ratio so hopefully it'll work. The stock 3.07 ratio is no good for US highways. In 5th gear at 2250rpm (bsfc minimum) the speed is about 100kph (62mph). With the 2.65 rear it'll be more like 77mph which is where I usually set my cruise control. Should get a lot better fuel economy and less noise.
I drove one for years, acquired when they were available as a quite cheap ~15 year old car. I've since switched to a Toyota and been quite happy with that. I don't know how long the current Toyotas will last, but the golden era Toyotas I think probably last about as well as the legendary MB diesels (with the bonus of not having to track down vacuum leaks).
which is well-justified. Diesels just aren't clean in any sense of the word, and I guess Americans make a lot more short trips which Diesels aren't well-suited for, and are not as concerned with saving on fuel as it's much cheaper.
I've heard that one of the supposed reasons for an aversion to diesel sedans specifically is that, during the fuel shortages in the 70's, GM hurriedly built diesel sedans that turned out to be poorly engineered and extremely problematic, and that debacle convinced the public that diesel sedans were a bad idea.
https://www-gocar-gr.translate.goog/news/feed/48650,ellhnikh...
Emissions systems on diesel engines have made the reliability pretty abysmal. That's not to say improving emissions isn't a good goal, but it was implemented terribly.
Between regulators over prescribing solutions and car companies finding the quickest and cheapest "fix" every step of the way, we ended with horribly complex motors that break down much earlier than before. It'd be interesting to see a comparison of total emissions when a 90s diesel is still on the road today compared to a newer diesel that is effectively junk in 10 years or a couple hundred thousand miles.
ICE vehicles just can't go away quickly enough (and we should aggressively get stinky vehicles like everything pre-EU5 and loud vehicles like motorcycles and scooters off the road first).
I'm not huge on regulation, but if anything MIV is underregulated. Even in the EU anything that was street-legal at some point in the past 70 years is grandfathered in, nevermind that illegal vehicle modifications - if caught - at most earn a slap on the wrist. That's enormously dumb and doesn't fly anywhere else.
BTW "more convenient and cheaper" are strong arguments when you're in a competitive business. Lawn services are usually just a guy with a truck hustling for customers. The more lawns you can cut the more money you make. Anything that causes downtime such as running out of charged batteries is going to be a large negative.
Robot lawn mowers are getting better, but I have yet to see one which can handle every situation that humans routinely handle.
I'd say your system is just undersized for your needs. Judging by having two batteries, it sounds like your system is one of those based around hand power tools batteries and then attempted to scale those up to lawn mowers. I've mostly heard bad things about this path. There's a lot of other experiences out there.
We started replacing them witg Milwaukee lawn tools. We frequently hit overheat cutoffs, but haven’t broken any yet. We do have a pile of dead small eGO and Milwaukee batteries though. These days, we only buy the biggest capacity we can. Those tend not to die as fast.
Electric is clearly the future for this stuff, despite our problems. The remaining gas powered stuff is all > 10HP.
We're talking a commercial mower though. I haven't seen prices yet, but I'd guess you're in the $15k range.
Energy density of batteries is improving too, so the amount of time between swaps will be increasing.
That think does some serious work. I've cleared acres of overgrown mess with it. 2 6aH batteries will outlast me (~2 hours) before I need a break and the fast charger tops one up in maybe 30 minutes.
Lawn mowers are really where batteries fall apart. They go through a charge extremely fast, especially if the grass is even moderately overgrown. Most mowers are meant to be finish mowers where you aren't taking off much grass at all, say 1/4" up to maybe 1". Electric mowers really demand that or you'll run out of juice very fast.
We do have to either replace them with something else or stop owning personal vehicles.
The end goal may be better, but that transition will be long and it will break plenty of things along the way.
I know the trains in Sweden were great when I was there a few years ago, I assume Norway would be similar.
Now, yes few people drive as far as possible without breaks.
Modern mid-size EVs have a range of more than 400-500km. To put this into perspective, the drive from Oslo to Bergen, the other end of the country (latitudinal) is about 460km and takes 7h. You could possibly make that without even recharging, if you manage to sit still, without a break, for 7 hours.
We can make the same decision and move fast in the direction, we just choose not to
It helps that so much of their energy production already comes from hydro, that avoids the challenge of replacing ICE vehicles with electric cars in front of coal power plants.
I haven't been to Norway but I have been to Sweden, I was impressed with their primarily electric public transportation. I'd have to learn more about how Norway handled the transition and how it would translate to the US; for example average commute distance, use of public transportation, etc. I'd also be curious how much their government has been spending per capita, they do heavily subsidize the transition with things like tax incentives.
My son's 1963 Dart (daily driver) puts out far less smell than a lot of pickup trucks in this neighborhood.
And the Dart is certainly cleaner than modern choker-style pickup trucks.
Someone I knew had it and they drove it 24/7 in 3 shifts and it had over a million kilometers on it. Visually looked fine and ran fine.
Now a proud 4Runner owner, I see on forums all the time guys bragging about hitting 300k, 400k and as high as 600k in their 4Runners.
The 4Runner of last year was the last traditional uncomplicated V6. The Lexus GX of two years ago was the last traditional V8. Aside from their small 4-cylinders, it’s all super-complicated turbos and we don’t know if those will hold up as well. Early indications are that they aren’t quite as special compared to everyone else’s super-complicated turbos.