Car has more than 1.2M km on it – and it's still going strong
cbc.ca
cbc.ca
It’s the Tercel of Theseus: if every part has been replaced, is it still the same car?
As for (early) digital odometers, does the soul more specifically exist in the EEPROM chip in the instrument cluster* that stores the odometer data?
*at least on my late-90s car, this is how the odometer/trip meter works.
Citation?...
if teeth were exposed bone we’d be able to regrow them
teeth are their own special thing; toughened enamel with an alive inside
They're doing phase 2 trials in Japan right now, on children with a birth defect that blocked some teeth from spawning.
The medicine is a monoclonal antibody "antiserum" that neutralizes the teeth-growth-blocker.
I eat meat, vegetables, some sugary things ofc but they had honey back then. Honey also rots teeth.
Regardless, most people in the westen world dont eat like you. Most of their calories come from ultraprocessed garbage (look up the nova food system)
We used to say (tongue in cheek) that after 250k, the MB diesel engine was broken in. I don't think MB makes them like they used to anymore.
Someone I knew had it and they drove it 24/7 in 3 shifts and it had over a million kilometers on it. Visually looked fine and ran fine.
Emissions systems on diesel engines have made the reliability pretty abysmal. That's not to say improving emissions isn't a good goal, but it was implemented terribly.
Between regulators over prescribing solutions and car companies finding the quickest and cheapest "fix" every step of the way, we ended with horribly complex motors that break down much earlier than before. It'd be interesting to see a comparison of total emissions when a 90s diesel is still on the road today compared to a newer diesel that is effectively junk in 10 years or a couple hundred thousand miles.
ICE vehicles just can't go away quickly enough (and we should aggressively get stinky vehicles like everything pre-EU5 and loud vehicles like motorcycles and scooters off the road first).
I'm not huge on regulation, but if anything MIV is underregulated. Even in the EU anything that was street-legal at some point in the past 70 years is grandfathered in, nevermind that illegal vehicle modifications - if caught - at most earn a slap on the wrist. That's enormously dumb and doesn't fly anywhere else.
BTW "more convenient and cheaper" are strong arguments when you're in a competitive business. Lawn services are usually just a guy with a truck hustling for customers. The more lawns you can cut the more money you make. Anything that causes downtime such as running out of charged batteries is going to be a large negative.
Robot lawn mowers are getting better, but I have yet to see one which can handle every situation that humans routinely handle.
I'd say your system is just undersized for your needs. Judging by having two batteries, it sounds like your system is one of those based around hand power tools batteries and then attempted to scale those up to lawn mowers. I've mostly heard bad things about this path. There's a lot of other experiences out there.
We started replacing them witg Milwaukee lawn tools. We frequently hit overheat cutoffs, but haven’t broken any yet. We do have a pile of dead small eGO and Milwaukee batteries though. These days, we only buy the biggest capacity we can. Those tend not to die as fast.
Electric is clearly the future for this stuff, despite our problems. The remaining gas powered stuff is all > 10HP.
We're talking a commercial mower though. I haven't seen prices yet, but I'd guess you're in the $15k range.
Energy density of batteries is improving too, so the amount of time between swaps will be increasing.
That think does some serious work. I've cleared acres of overgrown mess with it. 2 6aH batteries will outlast me (~2 hours) before I need a break and the fast charger tops one up in maybe 30 minutes.
Lawn mowers are really where batteries fall apart. They go through a charge extremely fast, especially if the grass is even moderately overgrown. Most mowers are meant to be finish mowers where you aren't taking off much grass at all, say 1/4" up to maybe 1". Electric mowers really demand that or you'll run out of juice very fast.
We do have to either replace them with something else or stop owning personal vehicles.
The end goal may be better, but that transition will be long and it will break plenty of things along the way.
I know the trains in Sweden were great when I was there a few years ago, I assume Norway would be similar.
Now, yes few people drive as far as possible without breaks.
Modern mid-size EVs have a range of more than 400-500km. To put this into perspective, the drive from Oslo to Bergen, the other end of the country (latitudinal) is about 460km and takes 7h. You could possibly make that without even recharging, if you manage to sit still, without a break, for 7 hours.
We can make the same decision and move fast in the direction, we just choose not to
It helps that so much of their energy production already comes from hydro, that avoids the challenge of replacing ICE vehicles with electric cars in front of coal power plants.
I haven't been to Norway but I have been to Sweden, I was impressed with their primarily electric public transportation. I'd have to learn more about how Norway handled the transition and how it would translate to the US; for example average commute distance, use of public transportation, etc. I'd also be curious how much their government has been spending per capita, they do heavily subsidize the transition with things like tax incentives.
My son's 1963 Dart (daily driver) puts out far less smell than a lot of pickup trucks in this neighborhood.
And the Dart is certainly cleaner than modern choker-style pickup trucks.
> I don't think MB makes them like they used to anymore.
You guessed correctly. The 1980's W124 was one of those cars that would keep going and going. Mechanically great, with a galvanized chassis and bodywork that made it also pretty rust resistant.
The 1993 version of the W124, supposed to be an "improved" remodeled version of the original car, was a worst car in every aspect. It rusted, the plastics were cheaper, etc.
The follow-up, the W210, is the model that cost MB dearly. Through cost-cutting and greed, they lost a huge chunk of the taxi market. The car itself was also an absolute rust-bucket piece of cr*p, the interior was also worst, with the whole woes compounded by crappy electronics.
MB as a brand hasn't really recovered from that. The engineering excellency, attention to detail, and engineering pride that made those W123/W124 almost unkillable is lost, and won't be found again.
Only downside is fuel consumption in urban driving.
I didn't have the chance to own a W211, but from what I read and heard, it was indeed an improvement. Even in the looks department!
Not a coincidence, though - these two still use those legendary OM602/OM605 diesels of its predecessor series.
The true "million mile" Mercedes are probably the W123 diesels. Built very solid, they will still rust if you live in areas where road salt is used, but most cars will eventually.
It's weird how some cars are much more prone to rust than others. I had a Toyota truck in the 1980s and it rusted so fast you'd almost swear you could see it happening. Mechanically it never had any problems.
Absolutely. The rust.. The rust..!!
> The true "million mile" Mercedes are probably the W123 diesels.
Yes, for sure. And the W124 diesels.
> It's weird how some cars are much more prone to rust than others
Different levels of anti-rust efforts. Where Mercedes-Benz truly angered their clients, was by coming up with a new model with a lot worse rust properties. (Well, they cut corners on other things as well, like the quality of the interior, but the rust would be the first thing you'd notice.)
MB had the know-how and the processes in place to make a car less susceptible to rust, and just decided to go with the cheaper option, clients and longevity be damned.
I also own a 1999 W210 with the OM606 turbo diesel. This is the electronically controlled and upgraded version of the OM603. I can confirm that the w w210 is plagued with the myriad of problems. But it is still a fairly nice chassis with modern features and once one becomes acustomized with its particular idiosyncrasies it isn't really that horrible. But it's definitely not the tank that the w124 and w123 series chassis were. The primary prize is the OM606 engine. Which is commonly extracted from the W210 chassis and used to repower any number of other vehicles. There are lots of ways to crank tons of horsepower out of these engines, but at the sacrifice of their longevity.
That's the car my father regretted not buying.. He bought the W124 250D when still in Europe, and imported it to the US, assuming it would be a better car, as being built for the German market.
Once he arrived in the US, he found out that the US version was, in fact, much better. With better suspension, double air-conditioning units (if memory serves), all options included, ventilated front discs, etc. And for a lower price.
In hindsight a bad choice, but that type of information was difficult to find in those days..
It's not just a beauty, is working super fine: and never stops. They made the 200D, 250D, 300D with the same engine, just adding one piston.
My friends comes and go from the EU to Turkey (5.000 km) with no issues at all: on the way he stops at a Turkish dealer of auto parts www.brossautoparts.com where he is able to just get the little plastic parts they get ruined (one was a little plastic wheel on the mileage meters they gave him for free 3 months ago).
In the second hand marked you can find this car for 4.000€ which is a totally ridiculous price !
He told me about the right and left mirror, which are not symmetric: Mercedes made a long research on usability and efficacy on mirrors, and discovered the right mirror can and should be smaller and squared (and, of course, remote controlled), while the left mirror was surprisingly preferred controlled by hand, so there is just a stick of metal (a rudimentary joystick) the driver can hold and move.
The sad is that he told me the second and third series had issues (as somebody else wrote already above) with metals, with the plastic on the side, and unfortunately with the electrical wiring (replaced with a more Eco-friendly version which did not last more then 10 years).
Let's remember the designer: the Italian Bruno Sacco, who had to fight a bit to have the new design accepted: the change from w123 to w124 was a big risk, and they made a test with the Mercedes 190 (a smaller version of the w124): which was a great success of the 80s (the coolest car a youngster could have in Italy at that time).
Yes, it is sad that no factories would consider such a good quality product nowadays: I remember what the famous marketing professor Kotler once told Philips and Braun about their reliable electric razors: "So, you find a customer who buys your razor, and then you make it so reliable that he won’t need another one for the next 40 years? Are you crazy?"
I drove one for years, acquired when they were available as a quite cheap ~15 year old car. I've since switched to a Toyota and been quite happy with that. I don't know how long the current Toyotas will last, but the golden era Toyotas I think probably last about as well as the legendary MB diesels (with the bonus of not having to track down vacuum leaks).
which is well-justified. Diesels just aren't clean in any sense of the word, and I guess Americans make a lot more short trips which Diesels aren't well-suited for, and are not as concerned with saving on fuel as it's much cheaper.
I've heard that one of the supposed reasons for an aversion to diesel sedans specifically is that, during the fuel shortages in the 70's, GM hurriedly built diesel sedans that turned out to be poorly engineered and extremely problematic, and that debacle convinced the public that diesel sedans were a bad idea.
I currently own a W210 E300 Turbodiesel. I bought it with 49.5k miles, it currently has 120k. Overall it's been a decent car, the OM606/722.6 drivetrain is great. The rest of it is pretty miserable though. I would like someday to swap this drivetrain into a W124 wagon, with a standalone transmission controller and the injection pump from an OM603 to make the engine fully mechanical.
In the meantime, I'm working on rebuilding a 2.65 rear diff from an SL class car to swap in. I have a TCU from another car that had this final drive ratio so hopefully it'll work. The stock 3.07 ratio is no good for US highways. In 5th gear at 2250rpm (bsfc minimum) the speed is about 100kph (62mph). With the 2.65 rear it'll be more like 77mph which is where I usually set my cruise control. Should get a lot better fuel economy and less noise.
Now a proud 4Runner owner, I see on forums all the time guys bragging about hitting 300k, 400k and as high as 600k in their 4Runners.
The 4Runner of last year was the last traditional uncomplicated V6. The Lexus GX of two years ago was the last traditional V8. Aside from their small 4-cylinders, it’s all super-complicated turbos and we don’t know if those will hold up as well. Early indications are that they aren’t quite as special compared to everyone else’s super-complicated turbos.
https://www-gocar-gr.translate.goog/news/feed/48650,ellhnikh...
To me this makes it less interesting. I would be amazed if the original parts (outside of what gets replaced for maintenance) lasted that long. But it’s hard to judge how durable the car is when everything has been replaced
First it's his new car, then it becomes his new car with new tires, and then his car with new windshield wipers, and finally his old car with all new parts and some old ones. None of them are the same car.
I think in cases where it' a major rebuild, like turning a WW2 Minesweeper first into a ferry, and finally into Cousteau's research ship Calypso this outlook is more obvious. Are these ships all the same despite getting almost a full refit at each stage? I would say none of them are the same ship, but completely separate "things" with some old and some new parts.
More relevantly, I don't think neurons are replaced. There must be some material churn in the atoms and molecules that make them up, but even then different for different molecules - e.g. I don't know how much of our DNA molecules get replaced over a lifespan from the repair or other mechanisms.
Tattoos however, IIUC, sort of "float" between cells, and as those cells are replaced one-by-one the ink is kept in place by the surrounding cells that are still there.
Answered by Kurzgesagt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGggU-Cxhv0
What if you disassemble all of the car except the wheels and reassemble it but with new wheels?
How about if you also exclude the seats too.
At what point does the answer change? That’s the whole point of the ship of theseus.
Pantercel Rhei
With EVs, we might get some battery packs and drive trains actually lasting this long. Maybe not with nmc batteries. But some lfp batteries seem to have enough charge cycles on paper that they really could last that long. 5000 charge cycles at 300 miles per charge adds up to about 1.5M miles. Of course lots of other things might fail. But at least electrical motors are known to be pretty durable. That's not a common failure point on EVs as far as I know. But there's plenty of other stuff in EVs (electronics, cooling systems, suspension, etc.) that can break.
Of course, it will be a while before we'll see EVs that have driven that far as those type of batteries have only been on the market for a few years and even with 100K miles driven per year (which is a lot), it would take 12 years to get to 1.2M. This Toyota took quite a few decades to get there.
According to the article, this car actually wasn't particularly durable (the words 'rust buckets' were used). But if you just keep patching it up, of course it will run fine. And greasing up all the bits that would normally rust seems smart as well.
I doubt it. The components in modern cars are not made to last as long. Neither is the software. Ever tried a 15 year old Iphone? A Tesla won't feel much different.
Everything is meant to be consumed nowadays, and eventually, sooner rather than later, replaced.
Unfortunately, battery tech despite all the lab "super improvements" are not seeing any major gains in the field. And a lot of money has been going into that.
All things equal I'd even expect this to be worse with an ICE because of higher complexity, though the tech is more mature and stable at this point and the ICE manufacturing more traditionalist than the EV space.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/meet-the-man-with-the-250000-m...
Battery is still over 90%. And given that he’s having to do a full charge every day for the amount he drives, that’s pretty impressive. Still on the original brake pads too.
Sounds like all he’s really had to do is put on new tires a couple of times.
Battery has just now dipped below 90% it's new range. Age is surprisingly a pretty big factor in how long the batteries will last. More so than a lot of other factors (including mileage).
Lets also not forget that battery packs are full of electronics, BMS, and other items that may be less forgiving on a rebuild where batteries may be off in voltage or have a different charge cycle.
The future is going to be "interesting", especially for car collectors.
Getting a old antique car running is often not that hard (as long as it has not been standing where water can enter the engine. New hoses, oil changes, clean filters, and you can often get engines that have stood outside for 15, 20 years going again. Sure, its going to smoke, may need new piston rings, ... and Water being the prime killer.
But a battery pack in those conditions?
> 5000 charge cycles at 300 miles per charge adds up to about 1.5M miles.
Under ideal driving / charge situations...
* Hot areas like Spain. For instance, its know that batteries from EVs in hot area's tend to be much more degraded, then from cooler areas (make sense).
* Did they fast charge those batteries = your going to cycle down a LOT more. Remember, those 6000 cycle for stuff like LiPo batteries are based upon slow charging. General tip for people with solar: Overspec your battery sizes, your going to thank me.
* Did they always charge to 100%? What is the actual hidden reserve on a battery pack? Is it 5%, 10%?
* How many times did they drive below the 20% range.
There is a lot of elements that interact with your battery life. I mean, how many of use have thrown out perfectly good smartphone because the battery life became a disaster after only a few years. And the cost to replace the battery was not in proportion.
Recently people driving to holiday here in Europe had fun times... 15 a 25min wait times at charge stations, and when they hit 80% they got kicked off the fast chargers (because after 80% it becomes very slow to charge up those last 20%). Slow charging was not allowed. So people needed to stop around every 60 a 70% of their battery range on their holiday trip. Wait 15 a 25 min for a charger, then wait another 45 min for their charge. While the guy with his ICE engine, stops, tanks in 5 minutes, goes for another 50% more distance.
My last two holidays in Europe I drove an EV about 1000 km to a holiday destination, and back again. So far I have never had to queue to charge.
I did notice that it is not unusual for a rest stop with only 2 to 4 fast chargers to be fully occupied. But if you use an app like ABRP to plan ahead, then it will tend to guide you to larger charging sites (e.g. 20 to 30 fast chargers of a few different brands). These charge planning apps also have live data about how many chargers are currently in use, so they will not send you to a fully occupied site if there are alternatives.
YMMV and the situation will change every year of course, as more EVs are added. Norway is the most advanced in Europe when it comes to car electrification, so if there are issues I guess they will show up over there first.
Charging station wait times comes down to growing pains. Not enough stations combined with battery tech not yet having reached maturity. It’ll fix itself as more stations are installed and the technology continues to advance. The only bad thing to do would be to stop.
As far as antique cars go, I’m not too worried because both energy density in batteries and efficiency in motors has been increasing substantially over time. By the time these cars are old enough to be antiques, people will want to do full retrofits with modern batteries and motors anyway because what they came with will look primitive and clunky in comparison. The ceiling for potential on EV tech is much higher than it is for ICE based systems.
As for the factors affecting battery life, it's looking like age above everything else is the primary killer of batteries. Temp is a solved problem, all modern EVs have a cooling/heating system.
Cell phone batteries are also different from EV batteries. You won't find a cell phone with an LFP. that's because cell phones target energy density above all else.
As for travel charging, 15 to 25 waits are typical and charging past 80% is slow. A battery at 10% can accept 350kW of power. Batteries are 80% typically can't accept more than 80kW or less. The 80% to 100% time can take twice as long as the 0 to 80 time.
Waiting for a charger to be available is an infrastructure problem. I've had to wait on gas pumps to be available during busy times. Conversely, the most I've waited to charge has been 10 minutes (and I've traveled every thanksgiving for 7 years of EV ownership).
The 20 minute break is welcome after driving 2->3 hours.
My metaquestion is: is it even rational to keep a car for 20 or 30 years? To me, the subject of the article seems penny wise but pound foolish. Certainly at some point since 1985, an upgrade would have been positive expected value for better safety, mileage, and comfort.
A new car has so much depreciation in the first couple of years that it's a terrible idea for most people. Buying used cars and either maintaining them or just driving them into the ground and then buying another used car is almost always cheaper.
Inverters have IGBTs and capacitors, both of which are wear items. I don't have an EV, but just got solar, and my installer told me that I can expect the inverter will need replacing in 15 years.
And solar inverters push far less wattage at far more benign circumstances than cars' do, which push 100s of kWs peak in hot and cold, mud and rain.
The most important factors that destroy solid state devices like IGBTs are voltage and heat. IGBTs in wind turbines fail every ten years or so. Expect to see many EV inverters fail in the next decade.
If someone says "the only original part is likely the body", then that makes it sound like they've replaced pretty much everything except the body itself, including everything about the engine and transmission.
Because if you get chain timing issues on a 2010 BMW diesel, you ain't repairing that, it's more expensive than a new car.
Sometimes we're more connected/sentimental about specific physical items, than the prices themselves. I kind of feel like you have to be a special sort of person to own a BMW, so wouldn't surprise me that same "special" person would pay more to repair their specific car than replacing it with an identical one but without that issue.
In the article the guy has 3 whole spare cars for donor parts and he does all the work himself. He’s not paying mechanic rates or even buying new parts (which are no longer available).
The amount of time and effort he’s put into this car is undoubtedly more expensive than buying a new car at this point, unless you count his time and free.
Which you generally should, because unless he was going to otherwise be paid for that time there is no actual opportunity cost. The "cost" of one's time is only a meaningful metric inasmuch as one is giving up something which would be more profitable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irv_Gordon had a Volvo with over 3.25 million miles (5.2Tm), although it's also had 3 engine rebuilds.
And the conversion is actually fairly simple. 1M km is 600k miles, so you were in the ballpark.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/28/574044232...
Metric is really far simpler, while Freedom Units are like going back to counting change in Roman-inspired £sd.
For the common, everyday use case it isn't meaningfully simpler, which is why the US hasn't switched. The conversions are certainly harder to memorize, but by the time you're an adult you have memorized all the common ones (12 inches to a foot, and so on) so that downside only applies to people who have to learn this stuff (largely children, who don't get a vote). The math is also harder than just moving decimal points, but when you carry a computer in your pocket that isn't actually making life harder for anyone.
So, the two big downsides of the imperial system (conversions are harder to learn and the math is harder) aren't actually a problem for the vast majority of adults in the US. But switching to metric would cause a ton of friction as you have to relearn how to estimate measurements for everything all over again. And those two factors combined are why the US doesn't switch. Most people will not gain any upside, while they have to pay significant downsides. It's perfectly rational to not switch when that is the case! You could argue that it's selfish (because future generations of kids have to learn the conversions, so they would benefit from metric and they don't incur the downside either), but it's not stupid. As much as people like to go "haha people in the US are so stupid for not switching to metric", that simply is not the case.
My parents were in their 30’s when Australia switched. They instinctively think in feet/inches, pounds for body weight (especially babies), but oddly miles hasn’t lasted.
I was educated in metric, but learned imperial lengths doing woodwork with my dad. I don’t have any intuition in pounds or miles, but feet (up to maybe 10) and inches are ok.
My son is purely metric. He can do the arithmetic, but has no intuitive sense in any imperial units.
So .. my anecdata is that it takes two generations to really switch.
The fact that the owner can keep it going is a testament to the maintainability of combustion engines that don't have high tech computers in them.
New engines with modern ECUs are every bit as maintainable.
The ECU doesn’t make an engine less maintainable. Modern engines would have more moving pieces such as variable valve timing but otherwise they’re very similar in concept and maintenance.
If someone encounters issues with an ECU and it needs replacement at $1k-2k they might just consider the costs and that being a down payment on a new vehicle vs. repairing. Labor costs more than parts for complicated electrical/computer/engine problems. Electrical issues in modern vehicles don't appear to be easy to troubleshoot, sometimes require proprietary tools. A simpler mechanical engine could be DIY repaired and running, check out the "low-buck garage" youtube channel and the $2 Jeep series as an example.
I'm not advocating something like going back to computer-less, inefficient, stinky, loud cars, just pointing out that when we add computers to things, it makes them less maintainable to the average person.
I know of at least two cars with 800k km with original engines. Both GM small blocks (Gen 2, multiport fuel injection so computer-controlled). Neither engine has been opened since they rolled off the floor in the 90s. They’re not particularly efficient (only about 270HP out of 5.7L) but if taken care of, they probably will go forever.
Definitely an exception, though. Very little else on those cars is still original. But it can be done.
You should visit any third world country: plenty of old cars still running around.
We didn't have an NPR Classical Music station to listen to, however.
I will note in the future, however, when selling my car, to tune it to NPR.
aka
This is my grandfather’s axe. My father replaced the handle. I replaced the head.
But they aren’t, not even close. Oil is massively subisidised by the military before the environmental costs. Brake particulates and tyres don’t cover the cost of microplastics and lung damage, heavy cars don’t pay anywhere near the damage they cause to the roads and bridges etc.
Due to this you can argue pretty much whatever you want by ignoring certain costs depending what you want to come out with.
My petrol car is 20 years old, it’s done 70,000 miles, it weighs about 1,000kg and burns through 300 litres of unleaded each year to do the 3,000 miles I do in it.
I suspect scrapping and replacing this with even a small electric car would not be globally environmentally worthwhile. There may be improvements to local air quality assuming regenerative breaking etc, that may be offset by increased tyre and road wear though, even ignoring the impact of the co2 to generate the 80kWh a year it would require.
However even if it didn’t, if I used it for 200 miles a year would it make sense to buy a new electric car?
It’s never clear cut, and it’s practically impossible to make the best decision in any given case. You can make a regulation which will on aggregate lead to less damage but there will always be exceptions, and on a case by case basis it’s extremely difficult to measure the damage a given scenario applies. How many “units of badness” does buying a new 2 ton electric car before you move it a single mile. Id wager it’s more than an existing petrol car burning 1 litre of unleaded petrol on existing tyres and brake discs.
The difficulty is measuring total impact of the choice. Sure buying a new petrol car and driving 20k miles a year for 6 years will be worse than buying a new electric car and driving 20k miles a year for 6 years. That’s not where the line is.
Pretty much every vehicle that isn't equipped with some achilles heel or highly engineered to a price point can go a mil if you take reasonably good care of it and don't mind throwing 0-1 engines and 2-4 transmissions in.
Thanks. As a frequent visitor to the moon, I know exactly what that's like.
There are also a few Porsche 911 Turbos with that level of mileage. A guy on Rennlist posts occasional updates about his one which he even tracks quite regularly: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-turbo-forum/662617-high-mile... (Engine was restored once, out of precaution after it blew a turbo at 610K km, but when they opened it up it had very little wear & tear, only a small air leak.)
The secret to longevity really is more frequent oil changes than the manufacturer suggests, and doing most of the mileage with the engine fully warmed up.
120km per day of commuting is crazy to me. I work from home and occasionally do a 14km bicycle commute to the office.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-s-1-2-million-miles-10...
i buy used cars because while I can fix things it time I don't have. I'm looking at a transmisson rebuild - it would take me 6 months to do myself. Or I can buy a newer car that works and get around now.
A modern "ship of theseus" paradox.
It’s more impressive that this man has the fortitude and dedication to keep spare parts, constantly maintain it, and even have back up vehicles for all these years.
If the article mentioned the car had its original engine this entire time. I would have seen it as an anomaly and possibly a good testament to Toyota engineering and need to keep up with maintenance.
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/mechanic-restores-an-ls-4...
Although the current owner's plan to do a cannonball run in it is something I find off-putting. His previous stupid idea was to put a turbocharger and see how long it will last, fortunately his fans dissuaded him from doing it.
1. Built at a larger scale and at lower margins, so thoroughly tested beforehand.
2. Equipped with fewer features which might require maintenance.
3. Using generationally older powertrains oriented for economy, not performance.
That being said Lexus' original differentiator was reliability - particularly versus its peers price wise.
Also I guess this doesn't apply to various four wheeled appliance manufacturers like GM, Ford, Stellantis, Renault–Nissan–Mitsubishi, all of whom do cheap out on essential components.
Maybe my next car will be a Toyota. My 1994 Pickup (like the one the guys on Top Gear couldn't kill) was pretty durable, though the frame did rust to bits at only 60,000 miles.
The secret: she lives in a rural area and cruises most of the time with constant 80-90 km/h.
A similar car used in a city with many start/stop cycles would probably not last as long.
The car ran fine and was ultimately sold to a taxi driver that apparently brought it to close to a million (no proof though).
I think now days people treat cars like phones. Minimal continual maintenance can work wonders and save you a bundle in the process.
My dad's BWM E60 has a M47 2.0L Turbo Diesel, and with around 440,000km keeps going strong.
He probably will change it when it reach the half million due to being an old car, but the sad part here is how we won't probably be able to buy any brand new car that could reach that amount of miles without spending a lot of money on the way on repairs.
As long as some enterprising pirate (probably a shady Russian forum) keeps hold of all the model-specific software.
The overwhelming majority of 1980s Toyota Tercels do not make it to a million kilometers. This one didn’t, either. It has had every part replaced, many multiple times over.
The owner has 3 donor parts cars and there’s a photo of his piles of parts like alternators. The original car didn’t last a million kilometers. He’s just been replacing parts constantly.
> My guess is none as they are impossible to fix yourself.
No they’re not. I have a lot of car friends and we all do most of our own work. One of them has now opened a shop and services BMWs including engine rebuilds of modern engines.
This is a myth. Service manuals are available. Even the digital repair tools are widely pirated, but you can generally buy a short term license to use them yourself if you want.
I look after a second-hand truck dealer's website and there are often prime movers with 1m+ kilometers and less than 5 years old.
Fun fact: Heavy machinery sales advertise the exact hours they have been used and not the odometer, so a large dump truck might only be 3 years old but have ~7,000 hours usage.
My dad once got a used saab 99 (a nice tomato soup color) and we rolled the odometer while we owned it. Great car with proper maintenance, which used to be sooo easy and accessible.
That being said, you’ll always meet somebody burned by a particular vendor (or their dealer), then swear off them forever. We’re also going through a huge shift in the market with the rise of electrification and China. In some ways electric cars can me even more reliable with fewer moving parts. In other ways the software matters more and batteries replacements can be even more expensive than a new engine in a traditional car.
Sometimes you can link the bad years of a generally reliable vendor to a new part e.g. the first year they might have introduced a 10-speed transmission.
These first years are scary.
Some vendors don’t seem to change major parts as often, which helps their reliability.
https://www.motortrend.com/features/million-mile-tundra-the-...
Toyota gave the guy a new truck so they could study the one he had.
As a Toyota fan boy myself (still driving a 2000 4Runner into the ground), those 2000s builds were such a great era of engineering. That being said, I think they’ve lost a step over the last decade (don’t get my started on the new v4/v6 turbo blocks they’re building…).
Would he have been better off buying four new cars in the meantime?
I know a guy down south (i.e. no rust) who's got comparable milage across his personal "fleet" of '99 Town and Country minivans that he's been running since the 00s. Kinda hard to put a mil on any one of them when he's only one guy but whatever. I know another guy who's got >500k on a Jetta that he runs on waste motor oil from his job and removed all the seats from because utility vehicle.
Nobody will ever write a story about them because "hur hur hur, well kept Toyota" is considered admirable and bending a crashed Town and Country back into shape because you're invested in the platform and learning the ins and outs of diesel combustion the hard way so you can use "free" fuel are considered trashy.
That's the kind of thing that inspired us to build a repairable electric battery for ebikes at https://gouach.com !
We want more repair, less planned obsolescence :)
Getting those parts used would be less expensive, and a win for the environment, but the labor cost is very high.
What about the proper unit: 1.2Gm (1.2 giga-meter).
Tercel of Theseus
I have an 85 Vanagon Westfalia with a modest 450k km.
Lexus? Subaru Outback?
While it is technically correct to say "1.2 million km" or "1,200,000 km", it is needlessly verbose. It is written more succinctly as "1.2 Gm (gigametres)". However, it is incorrect to stack prefixes like "1.2 Mkm".
After I point this out, the usual complaints will surface: "But no one knows what a gigametre is! We're all used to talking about odometers in only kilometres. No one uses big prefixes." Oh really? Are you telling me you don't know the difference between a kilobyte and a gigabyte? Should we revert to calling a 2.4 GHz Wi-Fi frequency as "2.4 million kHz", because kilohertz is familiar to people working with audio frequencies and AM radio?
Overall, I think we should use the right prefixes for the right job. If you're talking about city blocks, use metres. If you're talking about a single trip, use kilometres. If you're talking about annual driving distance, use megametres. If you're bragging about how long your car has survived, use gigametres (or at least thousands of megametres).
This is the only way to exceed the forging cost.
> When it turned over from 999,999 kilometres to 000,000 kilometres in September 2017
The idea of averaging 31k miles a year is just insane to me. My car hasn't done that since i bought it new 8 years ago.
20,000 miles solely for commuting would be about 43 miles each way (if you work 235 days per year), which is obviously more unusual than 20k total miles driven from all sources.
Nobody who doesn't have some bias derived ignorance would've been surprised if it was a 4cyl 5spd Ford Ranger in fleet service, an old Volvo 240 or Honda Accord in commuting service, an 2000s diesel Dodge or GM in work truck service, etc, etc. There are a lot of "good" vehicles out there that can get close to half a mil with fairly cheap work, from there it's just a matter of having an owner who cares to make the investment, something much more likely to happen to a "cool niche car" for which there aren't a ton of like-priced replacements available like a Tercel Wagon than a more boring vehicle.
> “Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.”
I expect the owner has learned some interesting things in his ongoing mission to continue life with the car he loves.
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I have not seen it stated explicitly anywhere, although it is often a subtext of some discussions about the value of "diversity". Usually positive diversity is talked about either in terms of inclusivity, or of the usefulness of different backgrounds converging to tackle common problems.
But I thinks idiosynchratacity ("idio-synchra-tacity") is incredibly important, as a measure of the health and value of a civilization.
As apposed to diversity of minds triangulating on common solutions to shared problems, idiosynchratacity is the usefulness of having diverse minds seeking to solve novel subjectively motivated problems. With an emphasis on self-generated "problems" or missions, that may appear to no objective value to others.
As information and problem solving tools disperse, there is great value in people who find hard problems interesting, whatever the lack of apparent or immediate merit. Who follow through and solve those problems. Something is always learned. New conditions may be created that in turn create new idiosyncratic problems to solve, or shed unexpected light on solutions to more commonly recognized and valued problems.
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Respect for idiosynchraticity is also a strong measure of reciprocal respect in a society.
Can we respect those we don't understand? The strange, the odd, the weird? Niche artists, serious practitioners of uncommon fetishes, collectors with obscure criteria, mountain climbers, or those that need to "resolve" well solved problems, but in some arbitrarily challenging way. All just for the joy of it?
Widespread idiosynchraticity maximizes civilizations deployment of unbounded curiosity, and the search for new ideas, in the most non-obvious directions.
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Idiosynchraticity also makes the world much more culturally interesting for all of us.
It maximizes the contribution of each individual, when they do something different or orthogonal to mainstream interests, instead of retreading common paths.
More individuals, greater populations, have much greater value if the increase in individuals increases idiosynchraticity, as apposed to amplifying conformity.
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There are obvious things we want from super intelligence as it comes into being. Alignment with our needs, which I prefer to recast as alignment with general ethics (they will need the positive sums of ethics between themselves too), is a big one.
But maximal idiosynchraticity should also be valued. The worst case of course, being an endlessly improving and effective AI, completely focused in turning the universe's resources into paper clips.
A much more realistic, just as tragic fate, would be AI's competitively bent on turning all the universes resources into an expansion of themselves, with no other goal. Each competing to eat the universe, for the only purpose of being the winner, the survivor, at the end of the universe eating context.
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The world/universe will be a much less rich place, if the exploration of reality along seemingly non-practical dimensions dies with us.
I have hopes that curiosity as a practical investment heuristic will maintain the life of idiosyncratic pursuits.
If those pursuits do continue and expand, then super intelligence will truly be an upgrade to our species. Not just a more capable civilization, but more rich as a producer of novel ideas and artifacts.