I own a Toyota 4Runner which is known for holding its value long term and is super reliable… but I do have to change fluids regularly, for example. Engine oil, transfer case fluid, etc.
Regenerative braking is supposed to be nicer to the actual brakes, too, even though an EV with the same capacity is generally heavier.
Yes, and this to me feels like one of the least understood things about EVs.
There's no engine, clutch, gearbox etc. No timing belt or spark plugs either. So yes, that saves a lot of maintenance.
And depending how you drive you might not use friction brakes at all either. Leaving maintenance to be a 12V battery and tires.
Based on driving an ev for 10 years (Nissan Leaf)
There is also suspension, a/c, wipers, and interior electronics.
The difference between ice and EV stops after the drivetrain and most ice drivetrains are rather reliable these days. My 10 year old ice sedan costs about 0.18/mi. I would be interested to know what a comparable EV would cost, considering half of my cost is basically gasoline
Update: it seems EVs cost under 0.10/mi with figures coming in between 0.03 and 0.08. This doesn’t explain if this is all costs (including things like washer fluid, regular maintenance etc) or estimated costs+charging. My costs were tracked over a 6 year span
If that's the life of your battery, you get it replaced under warranty. Since no supplier wants to have to replace the bulk of batteries under warranty that seems to just be false in Tesla's case at least.
Your cost per mile including gas really depends on where you live. Because gas prices vary wildly.
Most premium ice cars aren't cheap to maintain unless you're doing a lot yourself
My car is a premium (luxury) car
Tesla... On the S, X and cybertruck
https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty
And 120k on the Y long range.
The industry average is drastically below that number..
Kia and Toyota? Ford and GM I could see
But also, this is part of how tesla is ahead still on other manufacturers. Knowing their product and being able to provide a better warranty speaks to their own confidence in it
A million mile Tundra with 117 dealership visits over 10 years:
In maintaining his truck to the extraordinary million-mile mark, Sheppard has logged 117 dealership service visits over nine years, ranging from timing belt replacements, oil changes, and the manufacturer’s regularly scheduled check-ups.
However, this Model S is currently on its fourth battery pack. Four batteries at 1.2 million miles mean that the average pack lasted some 300,000 and counting, which is actually a strong showing in our opinion.
https://pressroom.toyota.com/million-mile-tundra-2016/
https://insideevs.com/news/699413/highest-mileage-tesla-mode...
No consumer car should be built to achieve that. If they can, great, but you might be over engineering a lot to make that happen as a rule
Kia/Hyundai provides a 10 year/100k mileage warranty. Double that of Tesla. I wonder if Tesla knows their premium cars will fall apart long before their batteries do?
This was a great thought experiment though! Let’s do it again sometime?
Coincidentally, studies have shown that MPG on ICE engines can drop as much as 40% after 10 years.
You can also buy 3rd party battery warranties. As with any insurance product the price would be lower if everyone bought in. Would probably be a good subsidy for nations trying to encourage EV adoption.
> Yes, and this to me feels like one of the least understood things about EVs.
Well my anecdote is different. We're on our third EV over 11 years, so have a bit of experience.
Each one of those 3 EVs has spent at least 10x more days at the dealer than my 15 year old Mazda (ICE) minivan (which has spent exactly one afternoon at the dealer).
I’ve been told that should remember to use your friction brakes once in a while, to keep them in shape. Is this still true with cars that have effective engine brakes?
Use it or lose it kind of situation with brakes on EVs
Model 3/Y battery replacement is US$15,000 to US$20,000.
Wipes out all other EV maintenance cost advantages.
I have a model 3 with ~80K kilometers and the battery is as good as new. 2018 model. For someone that drives 10-15K km a year there's maybe 30 years more driving on this battery (400K km).
My previous ICE car had two head gasket replacements in the 10 years I owned it. I also had to replace the entire engine. Oil changes. Brake pads/discs, CV joints... So far the EV is way ahead and based on the current battery degradation should remain ahead.
For used cars, you don’t know what the previous owner did.
> For someone that drives 10-15K km a year there's maybe 30 years more driving on this battery (400K km).
EV battery life is more related to calendar age, rather than number of charge cycles and C charging rate.
That seems to be contrary to common belief. It's the cycles that deteriorate the cathode/anode.
I would like to read up on your source
For most other models one is indeed not so lucky =3
Tesla gives 8 years for battery warranty.
Interpret that as you may.
In reality, too early to tell. But probably not 20+ years like a Toyota/Honda engine or even a Mercedes/BMW/Porsche engine.
8 years is standard and implies a substantially longer expected lifetime of the vehicle on average.
Regenerative braking means people don't need brake maintenance as often, but also have to replace tires more frequently (especially lazy people that don't rotate the tires regularly.)
Personally, I wouldn't buy a North American ICE model from the past 17 years. Go to a site like Edmunds and sort by worst reviews first, and run if you see electrical or drivetrain complaints. You will have to go back decades to find a reasonable quality domestic ICE model. =3
Someone will have to pester a physicist at some point for a better answer.
Cheers =3
EVs just weigh more than the comparable cars, AND have that instance acceleration which REALLY is the biggest impact on longevity.
That said most of the reliable models are passed over. People assume that a recent Chevy Malibu or Buick Regal is an unreliable car, but some of those sorts of cars can hit 200k with ease.
Indeed, and we purchased Honda and Toyota models for in town. I like the silly look of the Rivian, but wanted to hold off a year to see what others say about its mechanical equity.
Be honest, Ford and Dodge have been on a downward slope for decades. =3
The gas savings vs electricity consumed were huge, about $10k
Not in California.
Many people charge exclusively at superchargers and pay $42+ for 250 miles of range ($0.60+/kWh peak hours after work).
That’s 6-8 gallons in an ICE car. At $5/gallon this makes EV supercharging more expensive than gasoline.
Also, I've never seen 60 cents a kWh at a supercharger in California. 50 cents, plenty of times. But that's the most I've seen. Maybe that's some specific part of LA or something.
https://insideevs.com/news/731559/tesla-least-reliable-used-...