Comment by Rover222 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Rover222 | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

I know a lot of junior developers who just gave up on that industry over the last 2 years. It seems truly rough for them. But also that's comparing it to the general boom over the previous 10-15 years.

I have about 10 yrs experience, and just conducted my first job hunt in 5 years (I was with one company for a long time, then took a sabbatical for half a year after our dev team was off-shored). I was pretty concerned that it could take 6 months or more to find a gig. But I found myself interviewing with 6 or 7 companies within two weeks, and had 2 offers by the end of week 3 (I'm starting the new gig tomorrow). I consider myself a pretty average full-stack rails/react dev. I don't even bother applying to FANG (or whatever the acronym is now) jobs. So... I don't know if I just got lucky, but the job market felt pretty good when looking for senior roles. My interviews were a mix of referrals from previous coworkers, a couple recruiters reaching out, and (the job I accepted) from reaching out on LinkedIn to hiring managers posting jobs.

It feels like the AI wave is killing junior jobs, but driving demand for experienced developers to harness it, even if just harnessing it as a tool to speed up coding.

Congrats on your new gig.

About the AI thing, based on my readings, I feel that more and more dev and companies are realizing the true utility value of AI programming tools after the hype, i.e. it's useful but not going to replace programmers completely.

The signal did took sometime to get transmitted to the company's leadership, but a year is enough time for most smart companies to hear it loud and clear.

Thank you, and yeah agreed that, for now, it's not replacing everyone.

Referrals are the key to non-FAANG jobs. I also have over 10 years of experience, with six of those years spent working under the same supervisor across two different jobs. Four of those years were two different jobs, thanks to strong referrals from my previous boss and the one I worked with for 6 years before that.

I fumbled a bit early in my career and burned some bridges, but luckily, I smartened up after the first 2ish years.

I figured if I have 10+ years of experience and do not have at least 5-10 people I can call up to ask for a job who've worked with me in the past, I've screwed up. Investing in relationships has been the key job security hack for me (also a completely average React dev who happens to know an above-average amount about video and webrtc).

  > Investing in relationships has been the key job security hack for me

This is a thing I failed to learn early on and I think a lot of people don't realize.

Connections frequently take precedence over skill! It's hard to determine skill through a piece of paper and some coding exercises under pressure. But a connection give a good signal on that and truth is almost no job requires maximizing skills (exception is at the bleeding edge and even there not always). It's also a signal about soft skills, trusting the connection isn't going to suggest someone that's difficult to work with.

I think it's easy to miss because we're often so data focused and because we want meritocracy. But the truth is you can't measure everything and not everything that's measurable is easy to measure. It takes more work to determine if some junior from a no name school is better than someone from a prestigious school. By connections make that easier to determine just like the prestige of the school serves as a signal, even if noisy. I think it's important to remember how this compounds too. Like your first year undergrad at Stanford is probably at a very similar experience level to a first year at a community college. But that gap widens and the gap isn't only due to coursework and lecturers.

Yeah, very helpful to have a solid network like that. My other job offer was from a previous manager wanting to recruit me.

But yeah, tough out there to land your first job right now.

Harness, or train? When a junior uses AI the junior learns. When a senior uses an AI the AI learns. Maybe the AI owners are harnessing experienced devs to train their replacements.

I think this generalizes poorly. A junior can use an AI to learn (just like anyone) but a junior is also much more likely to feel the pressures of getting things done quickly and not taking the time to understand what was written. A junior is also less likely to be about to identify when the AI makes errors as well as when accurately describe the demand to the machine.

I see people refer to AI as "training wheels" but even training wheels force you to learn balance while riding a bike. They just give you more flexibility in how much you can lean. But AI, it is easy to just accept the answers and treat it like a black box. There is no need to practice the actual skills of a developer: designing algorithms, analyzing, testing (designing tests!), reading code deep with a code base and learning how it connects, interpreting asks and determining appropriate ways to solve those problems (a big part of experience is having fewer unknown unknowns. Known unknowns are incredibly valuable)

While all that is possible with AI, I don't see it happen often in practice due to other pressures. And with AI it seems there's just become increasing pressures to get more done faster. But a junior still needs time to learn. We all do, but juniors need more and have less experience and ability to find this time

“AI”—assuming you mean LLM-based coding assistants—don’t learn. All they have is the context you give them. Seniors may learn how to manipulate that context to get better results over time, but that’s not the AI learning in any meaningful sense.

The LLM answers your accept/reject are used as training data

That usually isn't true if you're using the agent tools aimed at companies. They are explicit about what is and isn't used for training.

That kinda made sense except for "When a junior uses AI the junior learns"

Reply on news.ycombinator.com