And of course like in the past decades any time, you can always use Linux in VMs. Very reliably. So I stick to that.
Which laptops? Do they all have Nvidia graphics? This is really vague. Your comment is not helpful, and it just looks like usual Linux bashing from people who don't know what they're talking about.
I specified a few times, and I got zero relevant information. My time is more valuable than reading comments which are like “it worked for me with <something-which-is-not-even-in-my-spec>”.
2. It seems you're using hardware designed for Windows. It's like trying to install Windows on a Macbook: You're on your own here. Don't blame Microsoft or Apple for your issues.
Sadly, it's also a very expected answer from someone who probably likes Linux a lot. No matter what argument is made, no matter what examples or proof are included, irregardless of the number of such things, it's all just user error in the end.
When the argument is that Linux only _properly_ supports a small subset of devices for _desktop computing,_ and the counter-argument is that it does, yet a person mentions very, very incredibly common issues . . . Is the proper response to say, to effect, you're the one at fault by not using the right hardware? No, no it's not. Given that so, so, _so_ many experience these kinds of basic UX problems means that either Linux doesn't actually properly support a lot of different hardware (despite what many obsessed Linux users screech/preach) or it supports them perfectly fine and the tons upon tons upon tons of people who experience these issues are all the ones at fault and in no way, shape or form does Linux lack from a well known general UX problem.
Even worse is this, honestly, moronic take:
> 2. It seems you're using hardware designed for Windows. It's like trying to install Windows on a Macbook: You're on your own here. Don't blame Microsoft or Apple for your issues.
If I wasn't before convinced that you aren't completely out of touch, I am now. The primary subject of _desktop_ users _are_ Windows users with Windows machines. Goodness gracious, I honestly do not understand this take. Most of Linux's not-always-optimal desktop hardware support comes from a plethora of formerly Windows machines.
It's honestly just so weird to argue that installing Linux on a Windows machine is in any way shape or form as bad as installing it on a Mac.
Even more, Linux-only devices, as in Linux-first devices, are more of a newer thing. There have been initiatives before, that have fallen through or not gained a lot of traction. It's not until relatively recently that companies making Linux-first devices for _desktop_ computing became a real thing. And even then, the Steam Deck blows them out of the water by mostly _removing_ the desktop-part of Linux and replacing it with a homebrewed one. Although you can still use a regular desktop "mode." And yet, even with such companies, Windows machines stand for a massive section of the Linux desktop computing userbase.
Ironically, this is exactly the kind of argument I'd expect from an obsessed and out of touch Linux user. Because it makes no sense, disregards the points other potential users make and doesn't even properly address them.
> You selectively pick only tiny parts of comments to reply to
Yes, I nitpick on some smaller things when I know the poster is wrong on that matter (and I feel it's sufficiently important).
> while ignoring the points that are made and the plethora of very, very common issues highlighted
It doesn't mean I think there are no issues at all. Often I just don't have anything to add to them. Do I always have to say "it's true" to everything else? I never said "and therefore you're wrong about everything".
> Linux only _properly_ supports a small subset of devices for _desktop computing
This is true. However what you conclude from this may differ. It doesn't mean that Linux is a lost case and everybody should use Windows. It doesn't mean that companies can't switch to Linux. Very often they choose the hardware for the next upgrade and nothing prevents them from choosing a known supported hardware, however rare it could be.
Also, in every Linux thread there is always a large number of people with vague, unhelpful Linux bashing like "I'm trying Linux every other week and there are countless issues every single time". This is not actionable, it doesn't help anybody to choose the hardware. It's just a shallow dismissal, which is against the HN guidelines. I don't understand who upvotes that.
> Is the proper response to say, to effect, you're the one at fault by not using the right hardware?
This is not exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying that you should manage your expectations when using random hardware with a free OS. Not only the Linux developers weren't paid to support every hardware in world -- in many cases, the hardware vendors actively fight against this. Statistically, it must be a really large number of devices reliably working. How else could Linux reach >5% without anything sold in stores?
> either Linux doesn't actually properly support a lot of different hardware
Yes, this is the case.
> Even worse is this, honestly, moronic take
I stand by what I said. You can't demand any OS to work on every piece of hardware in the world; not even mega-corps can achieve that. You have to keep in mind the reality, otherwise this is a Nirvana fallacy. I would understand if someone said "I'm unlucky, Linux doesn't work on my hardware". Instead, they say "Linux barely works on a limited set of hardware that it was designed for" or "Linux on the desktop failed and will never succeed" (actual quotes from this discussion).
> The primary subject of _desktop_ users _are_ Windows users with Windows machines.
This is very true, and it's a sad state of affairs that for Linux to grow it has an impossible task of supporting all those different Windows machines. I recommend every Windows user to try installing Linux. At the same time, I do not guarantee that it will work, but there is a good chance. You will likely loose some features like suspend, but your machine will be faster, more secure, private and supported for the lifetime if you're lucky. Also you should be able to pay somebody to fix your problems, which will fix them for every other user. This is not true for proprietary software btw.
> It's honestly just so weird to argue that installing Linux on a Windows machine is in any way shape or form as bad as installing it on a Mac.
This is not what I said. I said that you're misplacing the responsibility here. The user should accept their responsibility for buying a "Windows-certified" hardware and not blame their problems on volunteers. They should thank the volunteer when it works and understand the reasons when it doesn't (and consider helping to fix the issues, too).
> And even then, the Steam Deck blows them out of the water
What are you talking about? Most users buy it as a separate device to play games, just like a console. It does help Linux to grow, but the comparison to Linux-first general-purpose devices doesn't seem relevant here.
I literally looked at it last week. Spent multiple days on it. Tried Mint and Zorin (full install, not just live).
This is on a brand new Lenovo p16s Gen 4 with AMD (no nvidia). That laptop didn't even exist before this year.
List of problems I encountered:
-- Multi touch not working (fixed by switching from Mint to Zorin, upgrading mainline kernel in Mint did not help).
-- External monitor not working (had to install display link drivers by going into terminal and running scripts and all of that other classic Linux usability) .
-- Hardware video acceleration not working (scrolling super slow, maps super slow, entire system super slow). Had to install AMD display drivers for that separately. Upgrading mainline kernel worked for Mint, but not for Zorin. Installing AMD drivers in Zorin involved downloading the drivers, !editting an install script that is part of the drivers! and then having an LLM guide me through the rest of the extremely elaborate process of installing the driver.
-- And to top it off, my classic pet peeve: there's no way to configure something as basic as scroll-lines (mouse scrollwheel speed) through a GUI in ANY of the distros. It involves installing imwheel, !writing a script!, setting the script to run on boot and then rebooting (and/or restarting the script).
So no. There's definitely no "it just works". Not even on a laptop that is supposed to have official HW vendor support for Ubuntu.
Also, I only ran it for like a day. I'm sure that I'll run into tons of other issues if I use it a bit longer.
Good for you and lucky you that you got it to work. But for most of us Linux is "nice try, but it's not finished yet" .
Here's your problem. The hardware wasn't designed to run Linux and you gave Linux no time to fix the related problems. Try older hardware or wait.
ThinkPads? Perfect every time? Dell? Have you configured you bios lately? Unsupported AMD? Grab your crayons on a race the old hardware will loose.
Linux has had 10 years to run on 10 year old hardware. Linux is not an OS. It's an attitude, and it's not a reflection on the technology, it's a reflection on the lowest common denominator.
Windows 10? I still have another 14 months left, and mass*.dev to thank.
Hardware that was built to run Linux? Drivers? If you have an AMD card and any interest in Linux, pull the card and prepare to trash the entire system, like the HP sitting on the sidewalk last night. Bye.
System76, Purism, Taxedo, Pine64.
Do I like it after all this effort?
No.
But sure, I'll wait. I've waited for Linux to become truly user friendy for 3 decades and I really really want to love it, so I'll wait some more. No problem.
My lenovo p14s is a great linux laptop unless you want it to sleep (which it does!) It even wakes up! But 50% of the time the trackpad does not wake up properly ... Making hard to be used as a laptop that I can get things done on
So yeah no problem, and yes I know should have gone to the usual forums asking everyone and their dog if someone before me had ever succeeded installing Linux on this brick.
GNU/Linux works, HDMI output et all.
https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desk...
What am I missing here ?
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-10-suppo...
With Windows 11 it will happen the same.
If others have fun making it work, good for them, I have better ways to spend the rest of my life on this litte sphere.
As what Linux needs, I thought it needs every little user, to make a difference against Apple and Microsoft, after all we are always told that now is the year everyone is going to flee into Linux.
So the market for personal computers has grown massively with phones entering it, and Linux has won here.
As to the general state of Linux usability - I’ve been using Linux since 1995, and professionally for more than 20 years - it’s great for professionally administered servers or workstations, less great for regular desktops / laptops where things pretty never work out of the box which is unfortunately not going to bring in extra users …