Comment by const_cast | Hacker News Reader

Comment by const_cast | Hacker News Reader

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Right, so you're admitting what we already know to be true: it's censorship.

Now, I can get behind some censorship if it's for very good reasons. As soon as it's for moralistic reasons, you've lost me. This is a morality law. Morality laws are bad, period. We need real, concrete reasons for blocking content and enforcing censorship - not morality.

Why not? Because morals change from person to person and throughout history. What an evangelical thinks is moral is different from what I think is moral.

If the internet existed during times of slavery, would they have censored websites addressing freedom because it is "immoral"? In my mind, yes. That's a problem with the entire thought process. So, we should throw the thought process out.

I don't know what the future holds in 10 years, 20 years, 30. I don't want to be bound to laws that rely solely on morality. That's just asking for trouble.

I mean, even just the word "pornography" is a moral footgun. Who defines that? Because a large portion of the US believes anything containing homosexuals is automatically pornographic, regardless of the material.

Proving one's age is required for many other activities that are considered unsuitable for children, such as purchasing alcohol and drugs, and watching age-restricted films in the cinema.

Of course this means that any adult, when challenged, who refuses to show ID as proof of age, will be denied service. But again that refusal is their choice. They voluntarily refrained from complying with the access requirements.

How is this substantially different to an adult refusing to show ID to access an age-restricted website?

The internet is already blocked by age. In order to order internet service, you must be an adult, and you must prove it by showing papers, such as residence and pay stubs.

Once the service or good is sold, all bets are off. The clerk at the corner store might ask for your ID to buy alcohol, yes. But they do not follow you home to ensure you don't give wine to your kid.

And, if they did, would you be comfortable with that? I think no. Why not? Privacy. I don't want a random clerk watching me every time I decide to drink or smoke. It's a violation of my privacy.

So, privacy - there's your answer, that's the difference.

The internet is not blocked by age. Any child with a laptop or phone, or any other device that can connect to a wifi hotspot, can access it.

Do you refuse to watch age-restricted films in the cinema because the owner of the cinema might have a record of what you've watched? Age-restricted websites are no different. You can comply with the access requirement, or refrain from using the service. It's your freedom of choice.

No-one is forcing you to watch 18-rated films at the cinema, or purchase alcohol or drugs, or view pornographic material online. If you don't like the requirement to prove your age by presenting some form of ID, then all you need to do is voluntarily refrain from these and any other age-restricted activities.

Many public WiFi hotspots have content filters. Kids are not going to be seeing porn at the library.

The issue here is there's a difference between a mainstream service, like a cinema, and a tiny author website which probably gets a few hundred hits a months at most.

And the ultimate ideological aim is to take all erotica offline. Especially any kind of queer erotica.

This is using ID issues for ideological censorship, not trying to set up an ID system to streamline access to adult material by adult consumers.

kids shouldn't get internet access at libraries. there are books in libraries. adults can show their ids and get wifi access.

Block kids at the on ramp to the internet, all the problems go away. I just don't understand what I'm missing here, why do we allow kids to use the internet?

There are infinite levels of privacy.

> Do you refuse to watch age-restricted films in the cinema because the owner of the cinema might have a record of what you've watched?

For me, no. For others, yes.

But this is a different degree of privacy to what we're talking about. It's not the same, and you cannot make the jump for free.

What I mean is, just because I am okay with this degree of privacy violation, does not mean I consent to all privacy violations which may ever exist. Again, you might be fine with an R-rated movie - but you, yourself, would not be fine with a store clerk living at your house to ensure you don't give kids alcohol. So you, yourself, understand and live by the principle.

> Any child with a laptop or phone, or any other device that can connect to a wifi hotspot, can access it.

Similarly, any child living in my house can access my scotch.

It is up to me, the person who purchased the good or service, to ensure that doesn't happen. It is not up to a third-party like the store clerk. If I am a business, it is then up to me that the internet I provide is adequately censored. Which is what happens in practice.

> Give me your ID or stop posting on HN. No one is forcing you to post on HN. If you don't want me to know your name and address and age and driver's license number and keep a record of everything you say that I sell to anybody I want and store in an unencrypted hard drive, you don't have to post.

Do you see the problem yet?

Sgould I say "Cambridge Analytica" now or later?

Public wifi near universally implements porn blocks in the first place. I can't imagine there would be much chagrin about promoting that into a law.

> Do you refuse to watch age-restricted films in the cinema because the owner of the cinema might have a record of what you've watched?

I can't imagine that there aren't many people who refrain from watching all sorts of content in public out of privacy concerns.

>If you don't like the requirement to prove your age by presenting some form of ID, then all you need to do is voluntarily refrain from these and any other age-restricted activities.

I certainly don't, and I would definitely oppose this being made into law.

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