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Comment by lelanthran | Hacker News Reader

> It seems strange that one of the steps is admitting you have no control over your addiction. I feel like the first step should be deciding that you do.

If you do, you wouldn't be addicted, now would you?

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I dunno, but I'm pretty sure Jesus is not controlling my addiction, either.

What does that have to do with anything?

Plenty of atheists have succeeded with AA after failing with everything else.

There are people who quit addictions under their own power. So as the parent pointed out, it seems strange to exclude that option from the start.

in AA they call those people "dry drunks" instead of "recovering alcoholics".

if you're in treatment or AA for alcoholism - just as a single example - you're recovering. If you're merely "not drinking" then you're not recovering, you're just "not drinking."

i don't even understand why this is an issue, there are a lot of people where a 12 step program helps them recover; there are in-patient and outpatient care facilities that also can facilitate recovery.

and yes, some small segment of the population can be a "dry drunk" for the rest of their lives, but thinking you can overcome addiction by yourself is one of the reasons that addiction is prevalent.

>thinking you can overcome addiction by yourself is one of the reasons that addiction is prevalent.

This is complete BS, the majority of addicts overcome addiction without any specific treatment.

https://psmag.com/social-justice/people-addiction-simply-gro...

https://aeon.co/essays/most-drug-users-stop-without-help-so-...

I'd rather listen to a literal board certified addiction medicine specialist than some rando on the internet that links an article about "a meth user for 20 years that just quit!" and an article that talks about how the prefrontal cortex somehow magically allows people to opt out of addiction in their mid-20s.

Several "hard" drugs interfere with the brain, especially if the drug use begins when the brain is still plastic. Another thing, why does Louisiana have more opioid prescriptions than citizens? I guess these "addicts" don't count.

Do you have some kind of angle, here? "complete BS" is a bit combative, for this forum.

I would suggest that an "addict" is someone who can't "just quit" because they "want to."

Really, everyone who overcomes addiction does it themselves. Friends (imaginary or not) and therapists can motivate but the actual work needs to be done by the person themselves.

12 step programs disagree, to grow a flower you water it and give it sunlight and good soil(the 12 steps version of this: reversing selfishness and getting out and helping others) but you don’t actually grow the plant, the DNA, photosynthesis, electromagnetism, soil chemistry…even quantum forces(AKA a power greater than yourself) are ultimately the core of what grows the plant. Therefor when one gets sober and becomes generally content and happy in life when previously they were suicidal, AA suggests that the core of the work was done by a higher power, even though the individual was indeed responsible for watering their flower.

there’s a kinda interesting contradiction to your logic.

someone who can stop under their own willpower doesn’t need help to stop. they don’t need AA, right…?

so why should AA etc change things to cater for people who don’t need their help?

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