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Comment by Willingham | Hacker News Reader

It’s important to understand that all 12 step programs(all of which are based on AA) approach addiction as a spiritual disease, and the program offers a spiritual solution. 12 step programs also teach that addiction is a progressive disease, and there is no permanent ‘fix’, but rather a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of one’s spiritual condition. Here is a concise summarization of the 12 step design for living: ‘reverse selfishness, get out and help others’. According to 12 step programs, if you stop working the program, addiction will come back in full force.

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Its also important to understand the most of the successes sang by 12 step evangalists are coming from the <5% it works on.

Im not against it but it simply is not the only cure for addiction. In fact its provenly a very bad program for the 95% that cant hang.

Much better CBT and medical interventions out there and millions of people are told every year to ignore them because of 12 step evangalist.

If the west had the answer to addiction in the form of 12 step, we probably wouldnt have the highest rates of addiction in the world and is probably a sign of societal trauma that no amount of meetings is going to help.

The only thing that worked for me is 'trying to do better than I did the previous day' with the understanding it's not a linear curve, but a spiky graph that trends upwards.

That's awesome, just please don't tell other people that its the only way. Which has been my experience with 12 step people.

Its the most unscientific method of treating addiction we have, one of the least effective, yet the government literally uses it as its ONLY tool (in a lot towns) to fight addiction in their communities, partly because propagandists of the 12 step methods have ingrained the idea that its the only thing that works into society (USA), when in fact, it is the opposite. My guess is, they like or don't care about recidivism also.

I think the decentralized community-based nature of 12 steps programs is cool though, and we do need more stuff like that.

AA specifically suggests to only come when all other measures have failed, and if you can do it without AA ‘our hats are off to you’ quote from their ‘big book’ which is their main piece of literature. I truly believe and have seen first hand hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on rehab and counseling and medications and therapy and only AA ever brought those individuals into true long term recovery. I don’t like the AA is forced by folks who haven’t already tried, or had the privilege to try ‘all other measures’.

I agree. It shouldn't be the only tool in the box

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