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Comment by userbinator | Hacker News Reader

Mounted phones, and drivers operating them with a single swipe, are exempted, according to the decision, but looking at a map while holding the phone would violate the current law, the court ruled.

Makes sense. It seems they're considering the distraction as being caused by trying to hold the device, and not merely its use.

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This makes sense, from a political perspective. Cell phone usage while driving causes major harm, and while hands free devices don't significantly reduce that harm (https://www.fastcompany.com/91076805/cellphones-hands-free-d...) banning use of cell phones while driving is politically untenable, because constituents want to be able tu use cell phones while driving. Writing a law to ban the holding of a cell phones while driving, without banning their actual use, provides the appearance that politicians care about the constituency, without the inconvenience of regulations that actually impact safety.

From a statistical perspective, it's possible that it's worse than having no regulation at all, because people take more risks when using safety equipment (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4767144/), so ineffective safety equipment might increase risk taking, making a net negative effect.

Right.

The least dangerous way of using a device while driving is to hold it in front of you in a way that doesn't block your forward field of few but also doesn't require you to look away as mounted devices do.

How about making it so cell phones limit most functionality when in a moving car going faster than some threshold, unless making an emergency call?

Perhaps with an exception that allows full functionality if the car and the phone support some way to precisely localize the phone within the car to being somewhere other than near the driver?

Things you own shouldn't enforce laws against you, especially with a guilty-until-proven-innocent system.

Me when i can't use my phone in a bus because some fucker decided to block it's functionality when moving

You'd better have that exception in there.

Absolutely infuriating when the family minivan refuses to let the passenger change the Bluetooth pairings while driving.

I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic but this sounds absurd to me.

Operating a phone while driving - whether it is mounted or not - is irresponsible. Period.

I don't really disagree, but cars are still allowed to be sold with mounted touchscreens from the factory. I don't see a good rational reason why operating a mounted touchscreen phone should be illegal when operating the wipers or AC is done the same way.

In theory those screens are regulated to be safe to use while driving - my car for example has a lot of more complex features disabled while the car is in gear - while the phone does not have the same safeguards.

Whether those safeguards are effective is a separate, albeit critical, question

But that's an equally bad solution, because usually the touchscreen is located on the center console and can also be operated from the passenger seat. Disabling touchscreen features is needlessly restrictive when there are two people in the car.

My vehicle UI is not a general purpose internet device. I can access vehicle features and that’s pretty much it. My car doesn’t even let you open the preferences for Spotify unless you shift to park.

I can’t watch TikTok or message people. I literally saw a dude watching a movie on his phone on the freeway the other day.

People need consequences for that level of irresponsibility and I’d prefer it happen before there is a collision.

Touch screens built into cars are dangerous, too: https://newsroom.aaa.com/2017/10/new-vehicle-infotainment-sy...

We'd probably be better off if they were illegal, although regulations might not be necessary as customer backlash has been enough to get car makers to go back to safer buttons and knobs: https://www.wired.com/story/why-car-brands-are-finally-switc...

Yes. The obvious conclusion is that touchscreens for those functions should also be illegal. It would be better if they didn't need to be illegal and, if their use resulted in an accident, the user would be liable, but concluding that would be challenging.

Given the 'single swipe' restriction, it's impossible not to extend that argument to changing the radio, adjusting your seat or turning on the AC.

I think the difference is that changing tactile knobs and dials and buttons can be done without looking

Touchscreens lack that ability, you have to look at them to interact with them

There are cars that are primarily based on touch.

Yep and they should never have been allowed to exist. Tactile operation keeps your eyes where they need to be.

I think you are in agreement. Cars based on touch are good, yes?

Not touchscreens?

You can manipulate all these with minimal or no disruption of the driver. There are designed to be so.

What's the practical difference between changing the radio station on the built-in entertainment system and pressing the "next track" button on a playlist playing on a phone which is mounted on a dashboard mount in the same general area as the built-in entertainment system?

Playing the next track on the phone may actually be less distracting than changing the radio station because many built-in radios lack voice control whereas on the phone you might be able to use the phones voice assistant to change the track.

The practical difference is that physical buttons can be changed without looking, since they provide tactile feedback and they're physically present in the world. Touchscreens require looking, even if you're pretty familiar with the interface, because you can miss.

Of course even this is kind of moot, because a lot of car manufacturers put vital controls on the touchscreen. I mean, Teslas have the fucking gear shift on the touchscreen.

Depends what you're using the phone for. Navigating? That's equivalent to a dedicated GPS unit, and AFAIK those have always been legal. On the other hand, if you're doomscrolling TikTok then it's a distraction regardless how the phone is held.

The same laws should extend to the 18” tablets many cars seem to be going towards.

Many cars have functions that are disabled on the screen when the car is moving. The carmaker can enforce that on the car’s screen. It can’t be enforced on a phone.

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