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Comment by smurph | Hacker News Reader

I think one or two big time tech company campuses would make a world of difference in downtown Detroit. Open a big dev shop, recruit underpaid people from local companies and best and brightest from Big 10 schools. Just please, don't feel obligated to focus on automotive customers just because you're in Detroit.

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That's another interesting topic of discussion though!

It's funny that national media (and even our local newspapers here in Detroit) tend to write-off the American autos as out of touch. Not discounting this sentiment, but they are making moves...

The Ford family have been investing in auto tech like P2P car-sharing (Wheelz) via the investment fund, Fontinalis Partners. Meanwhile, GM Ventures is investing resources into startups like RelayRides.

Anyone know if Twitter moved into the Madison yet? and if so - how many people?? http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/04/04/twitter-opens-detroit...

Yes, they did. When I was visiting the Madison last week Twitter had a mini office on the third floor with like 2 or 3 desks.

The office is tiny -- like a closet with 3 desks against the walls. I've been by it a few times during business hours and I haven't seen anyone in it yet.

I'd be surprised if Google doesn't have at least a data center in Detroit. Considering how much Google has been investing in urban real estate lately (NYC, Chicago) you'd think they'd want to snap up one of the big old factories and put a mini campus in there.

Google does have a campus close to Detroit (Ann Arbor). This is practically on campus for University of Michigan, which is where they do the scanning for Google Books. They employ ~300 people there right now.

http://www.google.com/about/locations/ann-arbor/

There is also a campus they call Google Detroit (it's actually in the suburb of Birmingham). I'm not sure what they do there.

http://www.google.com/about/jobs/locations/detroit/

From my understanding (which may be a big outdated now), Birmingham's primary function was to service ad sales to the Detroit Autos.

The Birmingham location is ad sales

what will make more difference is grocery stores and other amenities people need to live in an area. tech campuses that bring people to work, then drive back to the suburbs... not enough to build sustainable changes. everything will be at the whim of the people deciding to place businesses there (for charitable reasons, or other), instead of any locals having any say or needs to fulfill.

There is a "grocery store" myth related to Detroit, and it is just that, a myth. There a numerous markets and stores in Midtown and Downtown that supply fresh food to residents.

Edit: I lived downtown for nearly a year and a number of grocery stores opened in the downtown business district while I lived there, with plans for more. According to this article [1] from 5 days ago, there are 80 grocery stores in Detroit. Not to mention the awesome Eastern Market year-round farmer's market.

[1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jay-walljasper/detroit-fresh-f...

80 stores serving 700,000+ people, in an area with poor mass transit, is not that much.

There's ~800k people in Macomb County, and there's > 170 grocery stores.

Would love to have you build on this...do you live in the area?

I used to live in Eastern Market in Downtown and could get fresh food there all the time.

Edit: You can buy fresh everything in Eastern Market every day of the week, not just during the market on Sundays.

You're right, the grocery store problem needs to be solved in order for it to make sense for most companies to do business there. But major software companies like Google and Facebook can bypass it by building their own amenities for employees. These companies tend to do this even if the local area has amenities.

so the big benefit to detroit is that a company moves in, has people drive to it, then work and eat in that building, then drive home? it's not enough. when the city wants to start taxing them (after maybe a 5 year amnesty), if the company doesn't like it, they'll move across the street to another zone with no taxes (a la walmart).

There needs to be more in a city for people to do than to work and eat office lunches. Grocery stores are a visible indicator of how many people make their home (families, kids, long term commitment to the area, etc) there, and Detroit has very few serving 700,000 people. Getting commitment from larger chains, as well as tax incentives to help the smaller mom-and-pops expand to serve more areas - both of these will serve to help attract more people - and this goes for dry cleaners, accountants, and other service businesses.

Agreed, but you're missing an important point. An influx of workers who move into the community will ultimately yield an increase in grocery stores and amenities.

Companies like Quicken (mentioned in the article) provide significant incentives to get their 4k+ employees to relocate downtown. And it's working...

I also have worked for QL, and there are actually very few of the workers that live downtown. Most commute from the 'burbs. I considered it and did a lot of research and here were my thoughts:

-The income tax needs to go. 2.5% to live in a city with pretty bad crime and no amenities? No thanks.

-Car insurance is through the roof. If you park on the street it's assumed your car will get broken into occasionally.

-I don't feel entirely safe. If I were to walk home from a bar at 2:30am I would be concerned. 20 miles away in any direction and I wouldn't think twice about it (I'm a young guy and I will not drink and drive, so this is a legitimate issue)

-It's actually quite expensive considering the above. A "nice" apartment in a decent part of downtown will cost $1k+/mo. Go to Plymouth, Northville, Royal Oak (high demand, up-scale areas nearby), and you'll be able to get a reasonable apartment for this same price, sans all the above issues.

I really hope it turns around, but my realistic side is a little worried.

Municipal income taxes is one of those things I've never understood about the United States. If the city is highly desirable, like NYC, or even San Francisco, then sure, it might make sense. It does seem like quite an absurd premium for a city like Detroit.

All good points. I sometimes think it would make more sense for companies to skip Detroit and just open an office in Royal Oak or Ferndale. I would work there in a heartbeat.

Ferndale, Royal Oak, Birmingham (anything on woodward north of Detroit) are great places to live/work

Ferndale and Royal Oak don't really have white collar office jobs.

At any rate. The state of Detroit is extremely Depressing. It's the region's major city!

This is just not correct -- plenty of white collar jobs in Royal Oak. There are an abundance of creative/web design shops within downtown Royal Oak area itself.

not true at all... Just last week I saw a sign for WambaTech being put up in downtown Royal Oak - http://www.wambatech.com

You could probably get a decent apartment for at least 20% less plus not as much crime, plus more amenities around town (whether walking or driving).

Municipal taxes pay for police. You can't simultaneously propose to eliminate tax and decrease crime.

It's true that my living in Detroit will help provide the police with more money, which may in turn make more people in the city, which may bolster the police even more... etc. However, I think it's quite a gamble. What if I buy property and the area does not improve? Who will buy it off me if things maintain or go south further?

All of the "nicer" areas that I mentioned in my previous post have very low crime rates and no municipal tax. To add to the previous issues I had, Detroit is poorly run. There have been quite a few cases of corruption of city officials.

It's just another thing that needs to be wrangled in.

i've worked at quickenloans, have lived in the metro detroit area, and have worked in downtown detroit. It needs more lifestyle infrastructure than one or two companies can provide incentives for.

The state needs to take over the city, incent multiple neighborhood businesses (grocery stores, shopping malls, etc) to be relocating within a moderate radius of the downtown area, and incent families to move there (tax breaks, land redistribution, etc). Pull eminent domain on dozens of square miles of abandoned houses, relocate people if necessary, etc. Businesses grow around people, but people have way too many choices as to where to live. If Detroit is going to even moderately survive again, drastic action needs to be taken on multiple fronts - legal/govt, individuals and private businesses.

I applaud the steps QL and others have taken, but it tends to be not enough - Compuware 15(?) years ago moved there and it didn't do much, for example.

How is the dev life over at QL? They keep calling and trying to get me to come in for an interview, but I haven't had the time to really consider it having just gotten in at ciber in Southfield a few months back.

I worked with people at a company in Lansing (TechSmith) that worked at Quicken Loans. They were NOT disappointed with their move.

I've heard both sides of the argument.

For me it was mixed, but it was 8 years ago. mgkimsal@gmail.com if you want more details - not comfortable posting publicly.

Upvoted :) You nailed it, couldn't agree more.

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