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Comment by andy_xor_andrew | Hacker News Reader

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andy_xor_andrew

Yeah, it's bizarre.

Normally the pathway for this kind of thing would be:

1. theorized

2. proven in a research lab

3. not feasible in real-world use (fizzles and dies)

if you're lucky the path is like

1. theorized

2. proven in a research lab

3. actually somewhat feasible in real-world use!

4. startups / researchers split off to attempt to market it (fizzles and dies)

the fact that this ended up going from research paper to "Comcast can tell if I'm home based on my body's physical interaction with wifi waves" is absolutely wild

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It's not too crazy, if you're familiar with comms systems.

The ability to do this is a necessity for a comm system working in a reflective environment: cancel out the reflections with an adaptive filter, residual is now a high-pass result of the motion. It's the same concept that makes your cell location data so profitable, and how 10G ethernet is possible over copper, with the hybrid front end cancelling reflections from kinks in the cable (and why physical wiggling the cable will cause packet CRC errors). It's, quite literally, "already there" for almost every modern MIMO system, just maybe not exposed for use.

> the fact that this ended up going from research paper to "Comcast can tell if I'm home based on my body's physical interaction with wifi waves" is absolutely wild

The 15-year path was roughly:

  1. bespoke military use (see+shoot through wall)
  2. bespoke law-enforcement use (occupancy, activity)
  3. public research papers by MIT and others
  4. open firmware for Intel modems
  5. 1000+ research papers using open firmware
  6. bespoke offensive/criminal/state malware 
  7. bespoke commercial niche implementations
  8. IEEE standardization (802.11bf)
  9. (very few) open-source countermeasures
  10. ISP routers implementing draft IEEE standard
  11. (upcoming) many new WiFi 7+ devices with Sensing features

https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/02/27/1088154/wifi-sen...

> There is one area that the IEEE is not working on, at least not directly: privacy and security.. IEEE fellow and member of the Wi-Fi sensing task group.. the goal is to focus on “at least get the sensing measurements done.” He says that the committee did discuss privacy and security: “Some individuals have raised concerns, including myself.” But they decided that while those concerns do need to be addressed, they are not within the committee’s mandate.

Sounds like IEEE is in need of fresh leadership and soon. Complacency at this point is folly.

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