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Comment by jmercouris | Hacker News Reader

Yes, in practice this increases price transparency. Imagine everything could be monetized. They could charge for access to the bathroom, or water. What is the minimum expectation of what is included in the price of a ticket?

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I'm against charging for bathrooms, water, or other such basic human needs while you are in the custody of the airline for the duration of travel. There should be a basic standard of human care that includes those things. Food should also be included for flights over 5-ish hours.

Carry-on fees are a whole another level of shittiness though. I, the customer, am the one carrying the bag, there should be no reason to charge for it.

It's like charging extra for wearing a red shirt or charging extra for wearing a hat.

> I, the customer, am the one carrying the bag, there should be no reason to charge for it.

It's on the plane, so it takes up some of the limited storage space, and increases the weight of the plane, which means more fuel burned.

Saying you carry the bag so there's no reason to charge for it is like saying you carry yourself onto the plane, so there's no reason to charge you for the flight ticket.

So either they build the average per-passenger cost into the price of every ticket, or they charge a fee only for people who want to take on the extra bag.

Airlines already use an average cost per passenger.

What you are looking for is charging passengers per weight.

In practice, flights.google.com doesn't know the price of a luggage. So you might think a Easyjet/Ryanair ticket is cheaper, but I have had situations where actually after adding the luggage for every passenger the normal airline is €30 cheaper in total. And you get a free drink plus snack.

Honestly, it would be much better for transparency reasons if budget airlines offer a discount for no luggage instead of an extra fee.

What is the minimum expectation of what is included in the price of a ticket?

The expectation that you eventually reach your destination alive.

That's it, from the airlines' perspective.

> The expectation that you eventually reach your destination alive.

Tell me, when you fly as freight do pay to have the box labelled "fragile" :)

What is the minimum expectation of what is included in the price of a ticket?

A seat.

I'd include air and a seatbelt

Certainly a bathroom has to be included, you can't lock people in a tube in the sky and then not let them pee.

But I believe Ryanair considered trying not to use seats at one point.

Actually you can do exactly that, at least in the US. I've been stuck on a plane more than once and told I couldn't use the restroom

Then they will have to hire cleaners, because I will shit and pee all over the seat.

I've never personally seen someone do that but I have heard stories of this happening before.

I have incontinence, so I either wear diapers (still going to pee and defecate regardless), or I have access to the bathroom in time. If I wear diapers, there is going to be odor contamination in the area. It is bad for others, and for me, and their business too, I assume. Depends on the length of the trip; I try to limit fluid intake to zero before I go outside.

That sounds unlikely - did they give a reason (e.g. toilet cannot be used when the fasten seatbelt light is on during turbulence/landing/take-off)

The reason was because they said so.

Keep in mind, I also had a flight attendant tell me that using Zoom on a plane is a felony.

Which airline(s) was that, so that we can avoid them?

Ryanair also considered charging for bathrooms.

Although in both cases, it's hard to tell if they were serious, or just doing PR.

It’s not hard to tell at all.

At peak season every year, O’Leary says something crazy like they are going to charge for the bathroom, or charge fat people extra, or get rid of arm rests, or have standing room only. The tabloids run the story, and always mention how cheap the flights are, including whatever the cheapest deal at the moment is.

It’s very, very obvious advertising. The tabloids go along with it because it makes people angry, which drives traffic.

Seats are not included in all bus or train tickets :)

The only reason the seat is necessary on a plane is for safety.

in a more civilized time there would be a bit more than that.

Up until 1978 there was a lot more than this in the US. This is where we see photos of carts that brought prime rib to passengers and people in suits toasting with champaign glasses and there was so much space in the aisle that you could pass by service carts. It was like that because airlines were extremely regulated and not allowed to compete on price. So they competed on what was included. The result was photos of "a more civilized time" but also that almost nobody could afford to fly.

I've probably paid more for a single beer than some of my flights.

Also business flights are kinda affordable if you really shop around.

I’m not talking about steaks. I’m talking about basic human rights, like a glass of water and access to a restroom.

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