Comment by ujkhsjkdhf234 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ujkhsjkdhf234 | Hacker News Reader

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> The average working American in my state can't afford "good" healthcare but we're happy to let these people in sign these people up for state healthcare and benefits (at least in my blue state, perhaps the red states have stringent criteria that makes them ineligible) and doll out millions of dollars of contracts to all sorts of entities that facilitate this process. It's absolutely nonsensical policy. And this is without even examining the effects on supply and demand of labor, cheap housing, etc, which I'm sure aren't great.

You're blaming the wrong people for this. Illegal immigrants are not to blame for shit healthcare and if anything, they make things cheaper for you. No one in your state wants to work farms for less than minimum wage.

> I don't hate the immigrants. They're mostly fine people. But I would enact the most unspeakable horrors upon the people who actively created this situation were I given the opportunity.

The most conservative voices are the ones who hire illegal immigrants under the table including the current POTUS. Illegal immigration is a solvable issue and if you look closely at Texas government you'll see that. You will occasionally get a Republican who puts forth a real solution for illegal immigration and other Texas Republicans tank it because they like to campaign on the issue. You can't campaign on illegal immigrants if you fix the problem.

I think it speaks volumes to either your reading comprehension or moral character (more likely the latter IMO) that you took my comment which is to the tune of "this is the effect of group A, I blame group B" and then strawman me as blaming group A. My statement as to the scope of group B who I do blame was intentionally vague so as to include the many varieties of people within it.

I'm not taking your comment as you blaming Democrats or Republicans. I'm pointing out that the people who are largely anti-immigration are the ones perpetuating the problem and if people want to really solve the problem, we can solve it. You just have to not get distracted by false narratives.

>I'm pointing out that the people who are largely anti-immigration are the ones perpetuating the problem

You need to separate the politicians from the people. There is always someone willing to say anything to get elected. Of course they never really solve the issues, so long as not solving the issue harms their chances of reelection less than solving it does.

The root cause is the hordes of people who are unable to think several steps ahead, think about then 2nd through Nth consequences of policy and yet still vote, many of them in these comments. Because at the end of the day that's who elects the politicians. And on the other side of the equation are voters who don't actually demand results. You can blame media and whatnot but those are small factors, not the dominating factor of the equation.

>You just have to not get distracted by false narratives

I'm not getting distracted by false narratives. I've witnessed the degradation of my own states safety net services as they became inundated over the past ~5 yr as a result of federal policy. It wasn't like this under Obama or Bush. I'd happily go back to whatever that was.

> You need to separate the politicians from the people. There is always someone willing to say anything to get elected. Of course they never really solve the issues, so long as not solving the issue harms their chances of reelection less than solving it does.

This is the fault of the people putting them in those positions and what I mean by getting distracted by false narratives. If you keep voting for the people who fail to solve the issue then this is what you get.

> I've witnessed the degradation of my own states safety net services as they became inundated over the past ~5 yr as a result of federal policy. It wasn't like this under Obama or Bush. I'd happily go back to whatever that was.

I would love to know your state because I can promise your social programs are not degrading because of immigrants and are degrading because of tax cuts to the rich.

>I would love to know your state because I can promise your social programs are not degrading because of immigrants and are degrading because of tax cuts to the rich.

Run the numbers on the five bluest states. No matter what definition of "bluest" you use you'll get mine in there somewhere.

You'll never see the issue unless you actually look at nation of origin stats, which are not collected by much of anybody. These people have all been issued state IDs and are state residents as far as the state government cares. But ask any social worker, any administrator, and they will tell you that the demographics being served have changed hugely over the years.

I have people that work for these agencies in my household. I'm not shooting from the hip here.

I also know people who work in these agencies. I'm not saying these people don't exist. I'm saying these people aren't a "drain" as you put it. They pax taxes towards these programs and pay social security that they can't claim. The problem is happening at a different part of the funnel.

The problem isn't whether they pay taxes. The problem is that we've effectively increased the number of poor people in the country, or at the very least my state, on a whim. And that imperils all the social safety net programs or at the very least degrades them for the populations that they were intentionally envisioned to serve (which also imperils them, but politically instead of financially).

You've misunderstood my point with mentioning that they pax taxes. If more people are paying taxes then more money should be flowing into these programs, doubly so if more people are using them. If that isn't happening then your problem is with funding.

It doesn't matter if they "pay taxes" if they cost more than they put in.

If I make $36k/yr doing the kind of string together mcjobs you do at that income level, pay $0 in effective income taxes, pay 10k of consumption taxes and I cost the taxpayer $20k in benefits then the state is $10k in the hole per person who lives that way. You multiply these people and the result is obvious.

The point you're trying to make can equally apply to people simply moving from out of state into your state.

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