Comment by jjice | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jjice | Hacker News Reader

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I'm in the North East, so I've never used a Waymo, but I swear the last two or so years of ride share of sucked. I mostly take it to and from the airport, but I have about a 50% likelihood of my Uber drive getting either racist, preachy about religion, or taking a wrong turn that ends up tacking on another ten minutes. Usually those come in sets. I used to really like some pleasant small talk or a silent ride (whatever the driver leaned towards), but it's awful in my city now.

Just a month ago my Lyft driver said that God was telling him that the girl he was seeing was a whore because she said he should seek alcohol counseling.

Like six months ago my Uber driver (out of nowhere) said that the driver next to us on the highway (an Audi driving completely normally) must sell drugs to be able to afford a car that nice. The Audi driver was a black man.

When I'm out of town, that rate feels like it decreases though.

That all said, I'd take a Waymo in a heartbeat.

> I’d take a Waymo in a heartbeat.

On a personal level I fully understand that.

On a societal level I’d say, maybe it’s helpful not to be completely segregated from a certain social class that seems to exist in your town and to be exposed to them, albeit briefly during a cab ride.

I don't think this is a social class issue, it's an issue where society is failing to address widespread anti social behavior and mental illness. We've kind of given up and just accepted racism, anger, belligerence, and all kinds of mental illnesses as inevitable societal land mines that normal people have to tiptoe around. And now that they're unchecked, they're taking over. I can't remember any time in my life where we've had so many people just out there living their lives, in desperate need of help.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0075314/

I mean this earnestly, and not as some sort of comeback: what would “checking” this behavior look like? What is gone in society now that checked it in the past?

I’m sympathetic to this view but I can’t really make it a coherent theory in my head. When people talk about it on the internet it doesn’t seem to go very far beyond “something changed after Covid” and maybe “social media is to blame” but those two observations don’t make for much of a theory.

I don't know. I'm not a sociologist but it seems like we (at least the USA) have lost the concept of shared behavioral norms, and even where we haven't, public/private shaming is no longer an effective way to enforce those norms.

Maybe I'm longing to go back to an episode of Happy Days that never really existed, but I kind of remember a time where if you were sitting out on your porch and someone walked by and threw trash on the sidewalk in front of you, you could tell them "I saw that! How dare you throw trash down and litter in this neighborhood!" and chances are, they'd show a little remorse and maybe reverse their decision. Now, it's "Fuck off, Karen! Mind your own business! I can do what I want and you can't stop me!" And we just kind of start accepting bad behavior from strangers.

"I don't give a fuck, and you can't tell me what to do" has become this awful national motto.

On a societal level, I think more “normal people” would take public transit if they could guarantee the removal of homeless people and people behaving antisocially

That would require everyone having a stable job. Something to think about.

No, it would require removing homeless or antisocial people from public transportation.

How do you suggest authorities test people for homelessness on public transportation?

Are you proposing any specific laws to manage antisocial behavior?

In the end, I'm certain that the better idea is to simply give people jobs.

Antisocial probably isn't the right word. It implies minor actions like talking loudly are the problem.

Actions like smoking/vaping, busking, drug use, littering, and peddling are usually already illegal in public transit, but widespread and difficult to enforce.

on what basis would you deny public service to the homeless and antisocial people?

Creating uniformly applied rules like no laying horizontally across seats or smoking, and aggressively enforcing them

There is always a set of rules, terms and conditions. Like you'll be denied if you are dirty, heavily drunk, etc.

So do you need to scan your rental agreement or property deed to board the bus, or will the accept a utility bill...?

And function social welfare with healthcare, mental health care, housing and education provision.

It’s not an issue of social class. It’s an issue of the gig economy being a race to the bottom that cannot afford (legally or monetarily) to hold workers to professional standards.

> an issue of the gig economy being a race to the bottom that cannot afford (legally or monetarily) to hold workers to professional standards

They absolutely can. Uber just prizes availability above service while Lyft perplexingly fails to differentiate itself. To the extent Waymo is cracking the market, it’s not by being an AV provider. It’s by being higher quality.

New York had Juno and then Revel that similarly targeted quality. The former was bought by Uber and ruined. The latter switched from employed drivers to a gig model.

lol. Remember when Uber was cracking the market? Taxis where bad bad. Uber was cool cool. One "monopoly" got exchanged for another. Now Waymo is cool cool. In 10 years or so Waymo will be bad because they will play loud ads or some shit.

> Remember when Uber was cracking the market? Taxis were bad bad. Uber was cool cool

Yes. My Brown-educated perpetually suit-wearing black roommate couldn’t get a hail on 5th Avenue and the credit-card machines never worked.

Yep, Waymo turning into a terrible exploitative experience 5-10 years after locking up the market will be the least surprising business story ever.

I’m not convinced enshittification of the Waymo experience is inevitable. It’s possible there’s a price point at which they can produce a profit while remaining a premium experience. Uber chose to expand into the mass market, which every lay person already knew was not full of producer surplus. Taxis weren’t famous for shitty service and bad employment practices because they were a monopoly, they were famous for it because it’s a cutthroat, low-margin business.

It seems like Google will tolerate small money pits, but not ones that are scaling up. I'd bet Waymo is at or approaching breakeven. If they stop expanding coverage, then I'd worry about the lines diverging.

Google also still has the scars from buying Motorola and acquiring a huge number of employees. They aren't going to bloat their headcount expanding Waymo.

Oh no, where will I possibly find weird racist xenophobic takes if not during my taxi ride? It's too bad there's not a million social media sites where I could be exposed to them

Ah so sounds like the average cab driver experience. Uber has been one long and consistent regression towards the mean in that sense. I did get a good chuckle out of the taxi I saw recently with the "Do you follow Jesus this closely?" bumper sticker at least.

I almost always have headphones (or passive earmuffs) on so conversation isn't really an issue - but the number of rideshare cars with multiple warning lights on (Tire pressure, etc) is really rather alarming.

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