Hacker News Reader

Comment by arlcode | Hacker News Reader

Assuming that is true, does a more negative way of viewing things actually benefit you (even if it would be slightly more "accurate")?

If one has a choice (that means if there is no case of clinical depression):

At least anecdotally a bit of optimism improves my life quality a lot and results in a higher productivity, proactive solution finding and a more pleasant work environment. Constantly looking at the negative side of things (with a healthy serving of snark) contributes, in my opinion, to burnout and fatigue.

View on HN

It's not difficult to imagine a number of scenarios where that perspective could bite you in the ass.

If you have a false impression of a person's character because you've jedi mindtricked yourself into not thinking the worst of people, you might end up trusting an untrustworthy person.

If you are in a toxic work environment, and you convince yourself it's not so bad, you might end up staying in a situation that is actively harming you.

We are speaking in the abstract and I can't comment on anyone else's experience. But I personally find toxic positivity and the endless drive to be more productive much more dangerous than being too negative.

The counterpoint is that seeing things “as they are” (which is the mind of a depressed person — ask me how I know) can lead you to not give people the benefit of the doubt, it can lead you to be miserly, unmerciful, pessimistic, cowardly. There is always a reason to be distrustful. But the only way good things can happen in your life is to be generous with your spirit and you should seek to do so as a matter of course, even if the rational part of your mind has inhibitions.

This isn’t to say, be foolish. But on the other hand, the mindset that leads to this kind of deprivation can be more difficult to cure, since it always appears from a place of rationality.

The problem with these kinds of discussions is, we tend to get more abstract and further and further away from real-world examples. And it all hinges on what you actually value. I could come up with positive adjectives for every single negative attribute you listed. I can only speak for myself when I say that I have never regretted not giving someone the benefit of the doubt. I have regretted the contrary. Good things often just happen to people because of chance, and they attribute it to some mystical property of the universe--generosity of the spirit, for example. Conversely, being generous does not guarantee that good things will happen to you. I'm afraid it's far more random than most are willing to admit.

> If you are in a toxic work environment, and you convince yourself it's not so bad, you might end up staying in a situation that is actively harming you.

I hate a toxic work environment too, but let’s be real, everything is fake at software companies, so there is no “harm” happening if you stay. So what if leadership is terrible, if you can play their little games, take their money, and not tailspin into a depression… congrats?

There's a mental cost to that. Essentially having to put on a mask and performatively "play their little games" is taxing. Some are better at it than others. But in those quiet moments, don't you ask yourself what percentage of your life you have to be a different person?

I ask myself a lot of things, but they all require money to do. This is just the society we made, you do some shit that doesn’t matter for a few decades, get some money, then go do whatever you want. I’m fine with it. Would I rather not do it? Absolutely!

I'm saying there's a cost to that mentality. There's a personal cost, which is you giving up a part of yourself--not just your time, but your personality--to grow your net worth. And there's a societal cost to this level of cynicism being so pervasive. When the intellectual laborers of a society just go through the motions instead of being invested in what they do, the society as a whole suffers.

If you have to repeat thought eliminating clichés to justify this, it seems like there's a level of self deception going on. The chickens will come home to roost eventually.

Oh you’re assuming I just go through the motions. I do care about the craft of my work. Eh okay.

I agree. While depression and negativity leads you to see things practically rather than in an optimistic and hopeful way, the quality of life and satisfaction in a little optimistic world is much better. I am yet to read Daniel Kahneman but he talks about optimism a lot.

My preferred modality: "Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will."

I recommend Martin Seligman. I've read some of Kahneman's academic work. Martin Seligman changed my life with Learned Optimism.

Sounds like my next read. Thinking fast and slow was something I just started but it seems like something I want to read when I’m functioning better.

The trick is to be positive about yourself and the people you can trust, but slightly negative about the world at large.

Unfortunately the one of the tricks of severe depression is to make you feel like that circle of people you can trust is ever-shrinking.

Sometimes, unfortunately, it also is true.

The issue with all of these is that if something is a problem, it’s probably because it’s maladaptive to the actual circumstances someone is in.

And for the same reason ‘no one can tell if you’re a dog’ online, no one can tell if what you’re feeling is actually useful/adaptive or not, especially if the common root to many of the actual disorders is various degrees of bias/delusion

That's the kind of optimistic attitude I'd expect from Emperor Vespasian, builder of the Colosseum. You're role-playing your persona really well!

Personally, I employ/enjoy a highly skeptical form of optimism.

I think things could be great, but there are many obstacles along the way to be aware of.

It isn't true, it is obvious bullshit.

It is like making the argument that the most accurate view of life is doing nothing because we are all going to die anyway.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com