Hacker News is 44% 18-24 year olds, 77% male | Hacker News Reader

Hacker News is 44% 18-24 year olds, 77% male

royal.pingdom.com

134 pointsluigi88 comments

This poll from a year ago regarding age is probably more representative: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2175588

Results pasted here:

    Age    Points
    ---    ------
    0-10   39 (0.6%)
    11-15  32 (0.5%)
    16-20  462 (7.5%)
    21-25  1620 (26.4%)
    26-30  1945 (31.6%)
    31-35  1049 (17.1%)
    36-40  488 (7.9%)
    41-45  269 (4.4%)
    46-50  117 (1.9%)
    51-55  54 (0.9%)
    56-60  35 (0.6%)
    61-65  19 (0.3%)
    66+    19 (0.3%)

edit: Found a male/female poll here from ~3 years ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=591309. Another age poll from ~3 years ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=517039

    Gender  Points
    ------  ------
    Male    1375 (95%)
    Female  71 (5%)

I graphed that data real quick:

http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?chxl=0:|0-10|11-15|16-20|...

39 people who are either lying or accidentally clicked on the first option.

There are few on HN that claim they started programming at the age of 3 to 8. I'm guessing it's either them or their offsprings...

On a more serious note, does anyone still trust online survey results?

In my opinion starting programming at a young age is almost orthogonal to being interested in HN links and discussions from a young age, mostly because kids have other interests than adults, even if they like programming.

I'm not saying that there aren't any children reading HN btw.

I'm fifteen and have been reading HN for more than a year now, and I would have to agree. The content on HN is interesting for those who intend to make a career out of technology, not necessarily those who program solely because it's fun.

I'm not sure you are correct, I began teaching my little sister the most basic forms of programming a few months ago, she's 9 and now she can easily form and use arrays, functions, database loops and simple OOP.

She isn't anywhere near what I would consider a "good" programmer, but she is capable and for her age her intelligence level is phenomenal.

this is great, but it says nothing about how likely a 0-10 year old would be to find the content on hn interesting for any period of time.

it's pretty obvious people are either unable to read, or more likely deliberately trying to skew the results. There will always be those that try to break things, the ones that were likely bullies in high school, didn't get laid in college and are now bored and discontented in their jobs. it's a fraction of every group, but always present.

There is an obvious bias towards people who are engaged enough to register an account.

On the other hand, it is not as if data from doubleclick is without biases - especially on a site with the kind of people that visits HN.

I think Pingdom's claims are probably representative today - in the last year YC and HN reached mainstream as digg collapsed and reddit grew big enough for people to start looking elsewhere for tech news.

Given the prevalence of the old digg-style groupthink on digg-flavored issues like http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4417382 I'm surprised there's only 44% under-25s.

egor83 graphed several polls here:

http://hn-stuff.appspot.com/poll_chart/build/?thread_id=2175...

http://hn-stuff.appspot.com/poll_chart/build/?thread_id=3298...

http://hn-stuff.appspot.com/poll_chart/build/?thread_id=3786...

original:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4398621

original Hacker News demographics post:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4397332

the only way to explain the sudden and highly pronounced drop-off between 29 and 30 not only here but on the year-by-year graph linked a few days ago (from a single cycle) is that PG considers exactly 30 to be "over the hill" but not 29, and, therefore, being 30 is a very heavy marginal disadvantage versus being 29 when trying to gain acceptance to YC.

There is no way there is really that much of a difference in applicant quality and quantity at that margin: it has to be YC's selection bias.

Where is the information about the methodology of the survey?

The submitted article says the "survey" is based on DoubleClick Ad Planner,

https://accounts.google.com/ServiceLogin?service=branding...

a Google service, but it's not explained how DoubleClick knows about (for example) users who habitually block cookies and the like, and anyway how does DoubleClick match its data sources with the overall population that uses Hacker News? What is the evidence that the headline figure is anything other than a wild-ass guess?

I've never heard of it before, but I did find this: http://support.google.com/adplanner/bin/answer.py?hl=en&...

I'm sure the process is fraught with errors, of course, but there does seem to be data to feed the model and data to serve as a test set. The easy thing about targeting ads with demographic data like this (unlike trying to make statistically-accurate statements about demographic data like this), is that if a person responds to some types of ads like a 45-year-old scuba instructor or whatever, it doesn't matter if they really are any of those things.

Well lets check result of their methodology with other data. For example for Slashdot. Geeknet provides very different data http://geek.net/our-network/slashdot/ Linked article suggest almost 50% in age 35-54 but geeknet stats says it's only 5%. I cannot find it now but someone wrote that about 1/4 or 1/3 of slashdot audience are female which again differs from result in article. I looks like that either US audience is very different from global(although it seems unlikely on US centric site like Slashdot) or methodology of linked article indeed is far from perfect. Obviously I checked only one site from article and there are other possibilities (like geeknet lying or having bad methodology itself), but I would take pingdom report with a big grain of salt.

Just how much of an outlier is a 61 year old male? No pixels on the graph for anyone over 54!

Learning new stuff, e.g. writing Android & iOS apps, keeps the mind young, much like lifting weights and aerobics keeps the body young ...

Considering the average 60+ year old male still thinks Facebook is about the entire extent of the internet apart from online banking and Amazon, yes.

The only 50+ developers are those that have always been developers.

I think that's a silly statement to make. The average 40 year old will have nearly identical patterns, and I assure you that it's not limited to Facebook.

While there are certainly more new 20 year old developers than new 60 year old developers, they absolutely do exist; I've met maybe a dozen over the last year or two.

(Disclaimer: I'm 24)

I've met many too, but like I said, most are former developers, or have been developers for some time. They're the ones with war stories about having to load their apps in on paper tape and they're not exaggerating.

As a single data point, a colleague of mine is a 50+ developer, who was a nurse in the army until a little over a decade ago - and he learned for the sake of a career change, he didn't move into something that he was already doing on the side, or had done when young.

That's a pretty out-of-touch statement.

The Web has been around 20 years now. There's plenty of 60+ years olds in many far-reaching corners.

Smart startups would be thinking about that.

What I mean is that there aren't many 60+ year old people that think "Hey, you know what, I'm going to develop an Android application." It just doesn't come up.

The adoption rate of technology is always slower in older age groups. The way technology is used between 20-40 and 40-60 is enormous. Between 40-60 and 60-80 is even more dramatic.

> What I mean is that there aren't many 60+ year old people that think "Hey, you know what, I'm going to develop an Android application." It just doesn't come up.

Only because you're so sure of yourself, I have to correct you.

1. I'm 67. Here's my Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Lutus

2. Here is a list of my recent Android apps: https://play.google.com/store/search?q=paul+lutus&c=apps

3. I was probably programming before you were born: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Writer

Have a nice day.

Aren't you proving the parents point? He was saying the only 60+ developers have always been developers...

Also, having a wikipedia page that you wrote yourself, doesn't really say anything...

> Also, having a wikipedia page that you wrote yourself, doesn't really say anything...

I didn't write the Wikipedia page. If you think otherwise, locate evidence to the contrary, like a responsible adult. And if you cannot locate evidence to the contrary, ask yourself whether you really want to go on record saying what you have just said about a named person.

Your personal website is fascinating! Particularly the anti-psychology and Aspergers material. This piece was extremely well written and intructive:

http://arachnoid.com/psychology/aspergers.php

> This piece was extremely well written and intructive:

> http://arachnoid.com/psychology/aspergers.php

Thanks, but my latest article is better IMHO, as well as more up-to-date:

http://arachnoid.com/trouble_with_psychology

Thanks again for your support.

I enjoyed the personal story, it was quite gripping!

Inspired by "Broca's Brain" by Carl Sagan, I made it halfway through medical school with the intention of being a psychiatrist, before I finally realized that, on closer examination, psychiatry was not only a scam, but actually pernicious, repressive and evil!

No, he hasn't always been an android developer, plus the guy hasn't always been a developer (designed electronics for NASA before). You really believe anyone can write their wikipedia page and not have it deleted within 10 seconds? Personally i think there's a lot more to learn from seasoned developers who have literally seen it all, rather than the next-instagram-wannabe boys that frequent here.

> Personally i think there's a lot more to learn from seasoned developers ...

Thanks, but for balance, I recently had a conversation with a talented young developer who, unlike me, is fully conversant with modern times. I said, "How do the Angry Birds developers make money if they give away their app?" He patiently replied, "It shows advertisements."

My mid-20th century brain slowly wrapped itself around this idea: an application whose apparent purpose is to entertain, but whose real purpose is to deliver eyeballs to a vendor. Hmm.

That's not really a programming/development concept.

Making money? Only if the programmer under discussion is a salaried employee, disconnected from any economic issues apart from being paid regularly.

Some programmers still market what they write. Granted, this is a shrinking sector.

They also sell lots of Angry Birds merchandise. Clothing and plushies and pencil erasers and coloring books and keychains and usb drives and multitudes of other branded products. This article says that 30% of their revenue comes from merchandising and licensing: http://www.techradar.com/us/news/world-of-tech/roundup/rovio...

I was feeling pretty old and unappreciated ... thanks!

Sure, but did you win the Putnam?

I'd love to be able to qualify to compete in the Putnam, much less win. I can speak math reasonably well:

http://arachnoid.com/gravity

But I'm not in the Putnam class, more's the pity.

Hey. I read your sailing book and absolutely loved it!

Thanks! For others, here's a link to the free online version:

http://arachnoid.com/sailbook

Apparently people take offense when you talk about things in general terms. Why is it out of place to say that people who are 60+ who do program are the exception? It was not really a career open to most people forty years ago, it was a rather exclusive field or one left to brave adventurers and hobbyists.

You've been a developer for some time. How many people in your age group do you know that have recently taken up that as a career path?

And no, you weren't programming before I was born.

To be fair, there aren't many 20 year olds who think that, either. There are many on college campuses who have Macbooks and iPhones just so they can check Facebook.

There aren't many 20 year olds, but there are even fewer 60 year olds. That's all I'm saying.

drhowarddrfine, you appear to have been hellbanned about 150 days ago.

Agree. That is why Google has Vint Cerf working for them. It probably more than paid off.

This honestly makes me pretty curious. I thought the 25-34 range would be larger, especially compared to other sites that seem to have a much less professional atmosphere(Reddit, etc).

Hacker News certainly isn't some bastion of intelligent thought and discourse, but it's definitely above average in that, which makes me wonder if the 18-24 year olds are just keeping quiet in the comments, if they're really that smart, or if I'm actually a lot less mature/intelligent than I thought.

I am 23.25 and I do generally keep quiet. I would imagine the comments and submissions are generally by the older crowd who have more refined technical knowledge. As far as I can tell, the status quo is to only comment/post if you have expert knowledge on a topic

I'm 23. I just avoid being as flagrant of an asshole here as I am on 4chan.

^ This is an important effect, IMO. I find people will tend to mimic the accepted mode of communication for that channel.

I'm 23 too. I'm not on 4chan, but it may be true that I'm a little bit more careful of what I say here than on reddit (depending on the subreddit of course).

If you don't go to college and can find a good job, there's plenty of professionals in that range. I'm 25 and been programming professionally for 5 years.

20 year old here doing his part to bring the average post quality on HN down to rock bottom!

I think it is an accurate portrayal of HN and the results made me think "Yeah, I thought so".

HN's issue appears to be that it promotes what younger people view as an aspirational life style. College grads and young techie types will read stories about life at Google, joining startups that become large businesses like Facebook and will think to themselves "Yeah, I want a piece of that!"

In reality, HN can be poor for tech discussion and there are some absolutely insane comments on here, to the point where parody accounts like "Shit HN Says" have become very popular. It's an aspirational community with the best intentions, which is fine, but it won't bring the best in business or battle-hardened sysadmins to the table. You're far more likely to see a 22 year old college dropout gushing about how MongoDB is the future than someone that has succeeded in the environment that many people here aspire to join.

Maturity and intelligence don't go hand in hand. Most of my intelligent friends act immature on a regular basis, and most of the older, 'more mature' people I work with don't display any noteworthy level of intelligence.

It's also pretty easy for anyone to act politely if they want to. Combine this with the generally accepted notion that a lot of intelligent young people are cocky and egotistical and maturity doesn't have much to do with intelligence at all (IMHO).

Wait wait wait. I (along with every single other female programmer I know) show up as a male on google's Ad Planner. If the only category they give you is "Computers & Hardware", then you are assumed to be a man. Of course it is going to think most of hacker news is male.

I did my own little analysis of Hacker News readers based on the ~20,000 of you that visited my blog recently:

http://www.dangrossman.info/2012/08/21/what-hacker-news-user...

Of course, I didn't survey people or have access to demographic profiles from other sites, so it's just a breakdown of systems. To summarize, the average HN reader runs Chrome 21 on a pre-Retina MacBook.

Yes, but also remember that you're not measuring HN readers, you're measuring HN readers who thought your link was interesting. There are many (popular) links I don't click.

Did you click Dan's?

No, I don't click web-oriented technology links. I'm generally more of a systems guy, and I find user interfaces rather boring. I suspect most people are like me (in finding SOME aspect of HN boring/irrelevant to their interests).

How does doubleclick have demographic data for HN? I would love to be able to see how doublieclick defines me demographically.

Presuming it is the same as Google Ads:

https://www.google.com/settings/u/0/ads/onweb/

Doubleclick is a part of Google.

Presumin what? That page says I've opted out.

They have tracking cookies installed on most user's machines.

This is because they have such a high penetration rate of advertising inventory which they use to profile you by age /sex / interests.

Then it's just a case of marking you as an HN user, they do this by detecting the referrer when you arrive at one of their sites.

What I found most disturbing was that most people who visit Hi5 are people in the 25 - 34 age group. That was before I realised it is not a website dedicated to the Australian TV show for small children.

99.99999% of surveys upon social userbase outlets fashion towards 50% of all users being under 24 year's of age. My reasearch for this is based upon a finger in the air and no other hard facts beyond recalling a recent G+ survey.

Given this what % of user lie about there age (sexual equality has led males to stay 21 for longer), gender etc. What % keep it private. Do lurkers count and many other details that distract from the reliability % of any result.

You never know, maybe in 100 years or so people might look at % based surveys as people most look upon horoscopes today.

I would also perhaps argue that any age based grouping in anything other than age itself is ignoring the fact that some people do and can act older or younger than their actual age on many levels. It is perhaps the definition of the areana that the survey is based upon that should be weighted against the user. If somebody had written a program to analyis users posts to guage there age and gender to then come up with some %, then that would of been Hacker News.

I'm interested in what type of articles the 18-24 year olds submit/read versus other age groups. For instance, I'm in the 25-34 age range, and I almost never care about the JavaScript, CoffeeScript, or other client-side language articles. I tend to read the software methodology, software tool tips/tricks, and gee-wiz-look-how-fast-tech-is-moving articles.

I find it interesting that DoubleClick (Google) claims to have accurate data about HN's demographics when HN doesn't use ads or the DoubleClick network.

I've seen a few people mention "tracking cookies" that DoubleClick leaves on your machine. Without something on a HN page serving content from an ad network page, cookies won't work that way.

At first I thought this had to be flat out wrong.

Then I realized that the typical HN'er probably doesn't post many comments, and even fewer post comments which make me curious enough to look at their profile.

What tends to make me look at someone's profile is to see if there is a basis for their opinion in terms of experience. My image of an HN'er probably biased in favor of people who post good insightful comments and not necessarily someone who still just clicks on links.

I wonder how different the stats are for casual users (browsing headlines once or twice a month), people who read all the interesting links on the frontpage, those who read comments, those who sometimes comment, and those who routinely comment.

I can only thing of a few female commenters. zero on http://news.ycombinator.com/leaders right?

The leaders were probably commenting 3 years ago when the site was, from other stats on this page, 95% male. I see quite a few women who regularly comment: DaniFong, Dove and tessr, off the top of my head. Never mind those that don't mention gender or IRL identity, or have user names that are read as male.

"I don't notice any women here" =/= "There are no women here".

Whats the accuracy of those numbers? In research, statistics are normally followed by a accuracy estimation.

How do these compare with the general world population with an internet connection?

Hacker News is 44% 18-24 year olds, 77% male

And they hate America and Jesus.

Orkut statistics are quite interesting - most of the people are 24-34, then 35-44 group is relatively small and 45-54 is much bigger.

I wonder how accurate this data is.

Given that it uses US data and Orkut is not used much in the US, probably not accurate at all. You need the Brazilian stats...

Hard to believe it. Younger than MySpace? And there are so many old people on Facebook?

Remember that any external analytics can only report on viewers, not members.

i think the survey result are amazing more and more young people getting interested in tech oriented website.

more older people moving towards social networking

So utterly against the stream...heh

That explains a lot.

That is a depressing statistic.

When it said 23% girls I knew that they based their information on crappy data that isn't representative.

Why?

Take a look at the HN circle on Google+. That's definitely not just 77% male.

Neither is Google+. It's not representative of anything.

Wow there's 13% girls on HN?

23% female?!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't care about demographics on HN

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