Hacker News Reader

Comment by ofjcihen | Hacker News Reader

No this is the DOGE team that was demanding that none of their access be logged while also requesting access with no limits from any device at any time.

All jokes aside I’m confused why some people are responding to valid criticisms of this team by saying that we only care because they’re young.

View on HN

I don't know anyone who has worked with young 20 somethings and thought that they should have unrestricted access to sensitive data. This is not a comment on these people specifically, it's a comment on all people of that age. I include myself in that group. Under no circumstances should I have been allowed that kind of access at 22.

Snowdon, in his biography, recalls working with other 20-somethings in his work at the NSA. They abused their access egregiously. They were looking at people’s nudes and stuff.

NSA was, and probably still is recruiting kids right out of college.

I did have it (early email system).

I abused that access, and almost got fired.

Taught me a big lesson.

I had access to nuclear emergency / war operations information and systems at 16-18. But it was far from unrestricted. I was working through a school program on a hazardous release modeling software system and needed access and everything was logged and reviewed. As it should be anywhere; and all my access to sensitive data over the following 30 years also was highly surveilled and I never had a problem with it because it’s sensitive data. This protects not just everyone else but me as well - I can demonstrate what I did with it was justified. It’s not about age it’s about accountability and judgement and these guys show neither.

That sounds interesting, I can't imagine such a thing being allowed. Can you tell us more about the program and what it involved?

It was some program between the federal programs in town and the school that provided for essentially internships. After mine was over I was offered a part time job. I had to go through a security clearance but being a kid I didn’t have much history to research. It’s not like I had a top secret clearance or anything, just enough for building access and basic non-prod development.

I bet you also think men in their 80s shouldn’t run the country

They certainly haven’t done a great job of it.

Right, but that's a comment on yourself, even if you meant that for everyone else. Society absolutely trusts 20 somethings for sensitive data all the time.

Don't give me the bullshit about "this situation". Go to your nearest hospital and notices a sea of young nurses handling you and your family's medical data on a clipboard, paper, and a very poorly secured 20 year old workstation.

You are inconsistent, and you will continue to be inconsistent. In fact, your bank account info is known by the teller who has similar qualifications, your purchases and address is known by the customer service representative hired straight out of high school or in a call center in Egypt, and so much more.

This talking point is entirely a political cudgel that only makes sense to the kind of folk that do not think past their favorite politician's tweets. On that fact, wanna know who's been managing your letters/calls that you've been sending your politician? These ones know your phone number, and any modern filter will be looking for your address.

> Go to your nearest hospital and notices a sea of young nurses handling you and your family's medical data on a clipboard, paper, and a very poorly secured 20 year old workstation.

If you ignore the core difference - scale - you won't be able to see the difference. Young nurse won't be able to leak all data on all people even if those local papers and workstation are left on the sidewalk for anyone to see

But what’s different is the lack of security review, clearance, oversight, monitoring, and review. It’s actually less about age and more about accountability and oversight of access, with transparency to all use and access to every oversight function now and in the future. The fact they’re young correlates well with poor judgement, but that’s irrelevant. Everyone can demonstrate poor judgement, or malicious action. The demand their activity be unrecorded and unreviewable creates the perception of malicious intent and the fact of their youth makes their judgement impeachable without review.

Generically, the social security tech arm probably hires 20 somethings that have a way to access that data as well.

Because they don't have valid defenses or counter-arguments.

Not only were the kids, and they were kids, they were also convicted criminals.

It's even worse than that. Right after they did this, intrusion attempts were made from Russia using their new credentials.

It is public knowledge that they were compromised and... just... nobody cared?

No, the joke is your naive statement. Unless you've been under a rock the last ten or so years, you'd understand how incredibly stupid the whole DOGE debacle is.

All the collected info will soon either be used against us or sold to the highest bidder. (No, that's not paranoia, that's how the current administration acts.)

It’s all fun and games until someone misreads the tone of your post on HN :(

Poor writing skills can be improved with practice. Besides, how will you know you suck at communicating, unless somebody tells you?

You are the one in error here. You apparently skipped over the word 'valid'.

Same goes for context and understanding, no? ;)

Reply on news.ycombinator.com