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Comment by ulnarkressty | Hacker News Reader

Every time I try breathwork (be it box or x-y-z) I feel that the intervals are too long - by the time I finish breathing out my brain goes into panic mode and the next breath is not enough to compensate. I find them the exact opposite of relaxing.

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Your urge to breathe comes from your brain's sensitivity to CO2, which can be trained. In fact, as is also discussed in the book the grandparent mentioned, high sensitivity to CO2 might cause everything from having short breath to full-blown panic attacks.

In other words: Lowering your CO2 sensitivity and learning to breathe slowly by doing breathwork is a skill worth acquiring. Your brain going into panic mode in a comparatively relaxed breathing mode could be an indication that your CO2 sensitivity is rather high.

That's really neat - being able to reduce your sensitivity to CO2 if it's overly high sounds useful.

Do you know if it's possible to do this to dangerous levels - that is, make your body so tolerant of high CO2 levels in your blood that you unconsciously adopt a dangerously high blood-CO2 level as your default state?

I'm afraid I don't know. You would have to talk about that to people experienced in free diving etc.

Just shorten the intervals. It's not a big deal. When I did yoga training in the pramayama (breath work) they started with quite short intervals, and the retention without air in the lungs was skipped at first.

It's completely fine imo and I don't think there's a need to get hung up on details like hitting a prescribed 4-4-4-4. 3-3-0-3 would be ok too.

A breath coach told me that breathing on a timer stresses some people out instead of calming them down. E.g., people who have experienced trauma. Submitting their bodily functions to an outside force's control can be very stressful.

Her approach adapted breathing patterns to listen to your body's internal signals for when to breath in and out.

I don't have trauma (that I can recall) which seems breath related, but this is my case.

I'm also kinda ok with guided breath work of the "breath in, hold, out" kind but if I'm counting I get stressed out.

EMDR helped me to get rid of this controlled breathing stress.

What’s EMDR? I think I have this too. I used to end up after headspace usually with a higher heart rate from overthinking and unnatural counting of my breaths.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_movement_desensitization_a...

I also do not find breathwork relaxing, and it's not always meant to be. The Wim Hof method in particular will definitely amp you up and cause some strange feelings. But if you are really having a bad time with it and want to continue, just find some interval that works for you. There is no one right answer for how to do this.

On a personal note, I realized through breathwork that I was taking deep breaths incorrectly for most of my life. Maybe it's my anatomy, but when I take a deep, fast breath, my nostrils constrict and limit the airflow. It was a real breakthrough for me when I learned to focus on my diaphram while flaring my nostrils. The breaths I can take are so much more satisfying.

Wim hof may not be meant to be relaxing, but box (square) breathing is definitely supposed to be. It's recommended in many places for anxiety by reputable organisations.

Of course, different people are different. If it actually makes anxiety worse then don't do it, or seek advice. It's difficult to know why the GP has this reaction.

They also teach box breathing in the US Army.

Yes I always end up yawning/having to breathe through the mouth occasionally when trying to do this kind of thing. Perhaps I just don't get enough air through the nose.

I like to start breathing using my own rythm and then after a while the intervals widen naturally and I could then synchronize my breathing with one of the well known patterns but usuallly I don't. If I try to start with e.g. 4-7-8 I have the same problem of going into panic mode and then I am not relaxed at all and heart pulses go up instead of going down.

for me the out of sync happens during the transition between cycles. I think the problem is the visualization in this 4-7-8 app. you don't know when the exhale is going to end, you are almost at the end of exhale and inhale starts immediately. .There should be a small gap of 1 between the cycles 4-7-8-1-4-7-8-1 ... or the animation should indicate when the exhale is going to end.

I ended up in the same situation with this 4-7-8 Breathing. Actually with this one the problem for me is that there is no interval between cycles. After first cycle the next inhale starts immediately, and from the visualization you don't know exactly when the first cycle is going to end unless you keep the count yourself. I think after exhale there should be a gap of maybe 1 to catch up. INHALE-HOLD-EXHALE-CATCHTUP - inhaling for 4 counts, holding for 7, exhaling for 8, and catch up 1.

Pages 9 - 14 of the following pdf go into more detail about this aspect of softening breathing mechanics:

https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/b68ec804-ba42-4194-b405-d1f...

Don’t a lot about the author. I just came across the doc on Reddit and the practical parts of what’s described checked out.

You can begin with an easier pattern…

Breathing through the nose, in for a count of three and out for five, then repeat.

As long as the outbreath is longer than the inbreath, you will get some effect.

Could also try relaxing first by massaging the Vagus nerve. An easy way to start with that is to massage in a circular motion the skin area in front of the Tragus (front skin flap) on each ear.

You can combine that with the measured breathing for added effect. They both stimulate the Parasympathetic nervous system.

Even easier: start by simply breathing in and out through your nose, without trying to control the duration. Just sitting and breathing.

The person I replied to needed a gateway to box breathing. This means getting used to mild hypoxia. Not measuring your breathing will probably result in regular patterns where the outbreath is the same or shorter than the inbreath. So, no.

Ok, sure. But the context was a "starting point", which is what I suggested. Babies need to learn to crawl before they walk (let alone run).

You should probably start by calming down first, such as lying on your back. Breathe as slowly as you want to for 2 minutes, and then start counting to see how slow your breath is.

I tried imposing structure but whenever I feel you like you say you do, I just revert to the mean. The rule is to not stress your system / mind above a certain threshold.

It's supposed to be ratios, not literal seconds. The app should be adjustable for you small lunged people.

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