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Comment by cowlby | Hacker News Reader

Agreed, but you can't not pay attention with the new Vision Attention Monitoring. Not sure if it's HW4/v12 specific but it watches your eyesight specifically.

So for example, if I look at the screen, my phone, or start day-dreaming for even a few seconds, it'll beep and quickly strike me out from using FSD. "FSD (supervised)" is how it shows up in the UI too at least giving some expectation of it not being autonomous.

So in practice, I'm picturing the right driving inputs and watching what it's doing.

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When the words are actually spelled out the sheer ridiculousness of "Full Self Driving" having a "(Supervised)" postscript becomes rather readily apparent.

Tesla can't help but know that the supposed non-driver getting constantly nagged to be vigilant as if actively driving destroys most of the value proposition of FSD. Vision Attention Monitoring has quite a bit of potential to be very useful … precisely in situations in which vehicles are not driving themselves.

Put on a hat or sunglasses and it falls back to periodic steering wheel nags

I haven't tested it but I assume the same is true if you put tape over the camera

Taping over the camera causes it to lock out (it can tell the difference between that and night time).

> you can't not pay attention with the new Vision Attention Monitoring

Polarised sunglasses. Works on my Subaru. Works on my buddy’s Tesla.

Quite frankly sounds super boring. I prefer driving than supervising. Only true unsupervised autonomous driving would be interesting for me (e.g Waymo).

But doesn’t Waymo autonomous driving only work in certain areas with hyper accurate maps?

Correct, because that combined with about $30k in sensors is the only true safe way to do it today.

More like $300k

> the only true safe way

An unsubstantiated claim given that there are many, many safe human drivers who have neither LIDAR sensors nor hyper-accurate pre-mapping at their disposal.

Quote the rest of the line please.

"today"? Are there not humans on the road today? There have been a number of safety issues with Waymos, certainly too many to describe them as the one true safe option, today.

Entertaining a No True Scotsmen is a bit of a silly exercise anyway, but this semantic game is extra silly.

The person you replied to was talking about how we can achieve safe autonomous driving today. When I remind you of that context, that your rebuttal is not actually rebutting what they said, I am not performing No True Scotsman.

The gap between humans and computers is enormous, not some weird gotcha tactic.

I literally rebutted that context. Waymos are not safe autonomous driving today, they have caused various safety issues in the era of "today". I didn't include "today" in my original comment because none of the available options are "the only true safe way to do it today", but I don't think it is constructive to just say that.

No True Scotsman was obviously in reference to GC, not you.

"Waymos are not safe" could be a rebuttal to what they said. "There are many safe humans" is not a rebuttal to what they said. Your comment above was the latter.

> No True Scotsman was obviously in reference to GC, not you.

I'm unsure what they said that would qualify. Was it adding "true unsupervised"? I think that's a fair qualification, because most of the point of self driving is lost if I can't look away from the road.

I took "it" to imply "autonomous driving." But I very much agree this is extra silly.

Yes. Once is available more widely to common car owners (either from Waymo or others) that would interest me. Current Tesla supervised style semi autonomous driving I would find either boring or stressful (depending on the scenario). I would rather drive myself.

Note Waymo announced a partnership with Toyota, pretty hand wavy, but at least it seems there’s hope the technology may come to regular car owners at some point.

100% me ... we're on the same page ... I've said it before. I don't want to become my cars manager ... I want to enjoy my driving.

I get that the vast majority aren't car enthusiasts and that's ok, but there is actual pleasure in driving.

And even me - when I want a rest from it - lane assist and cruise control are MORE than enough. I can even add these two to old classics without much bother.

Going all in on autonomy doesn't interest me at all.

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