Go has specific goals like not hiding control flow. This would go against those goals, at least the ways people have thought to do it so far.
A more refined version of what I originally said would say "conditional branch" instead of "branch", but I'll admit that my original message should have been worded more carefully. I think people understood it, but taken literally it's not a strong argument.
But of course that would hurt them and the community in so many levels that they don't want to admit...
- try/catch exceptions obscure what things can throw errors. Just looking at a function body, you can't see what parts of the functions could throw errors.
- Relatedly, try/catch exceptions can unwind multiple stack frames at once, sometimes creating tricky, obscure control flow. Stack unwinding can be useful, especially if you really do want to traverse an arbitrary number of stack frames (e.g. to pass an error up in a parser or interpreter, or for error cases you really don't want to think about handling as part of the normal code flow) but it's tricky enough that it's undesirable for ordinary error handling.
- I think most errors, like I/O errors, are fairly normal occurrences, i.e. all code should be written with handling I/O errors in mind; this is not a good use case for this type of error handling mechanism—you might want to pass the error up the stack, but it's useful to be confronted with that decision each time! With exceptions, it might be hard to even know whether a given function call might throw an I/O error. Function calls that are fallible are not distinguishable from function calls that are infallible.
- This is also a downside of Go's current error handling; with try/catch exceptions you can't usually tell what exceptions a function could throw. (Java has checked exceptions, but everyone hates them. The same problem doesn't happen for enum error types in Rust Result, people generally like this.)
(...But that's certainly not all.)
Speaking just in terms of language design, I feel that Rust Result, C++ std::expected, etc. are all going in the right direction. Even Go just having errors be regular values is still better in my opinion.
(Still, traditional exceptions have been proposed too, of course, but it wasn't a mistake to not have exceptions in Go, it was intentional.)
It does have them, though, and always has. Use is even found in the standard library (e.g. encoding/json). They are just not commonly used for this because of the inherit problems with using them in this way as you have already mentioned. But you can. It is a perfectly valid approach where the tradeoffs are acceptable.
But, who knows what the future holds? Ruby in the early days also held the same preference for error values over exceptions... Until Ruby on Rails came along and shifted the prevailing attitude. Perhaps Go will someday have its "Ruby on Rails" moment too.
But I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one, since there's little to be gained from a long debate about what jargon either does or should subjectively mean. Just trying to explain where I'm coming from.
What is there to debate? An exception, by every definition I have ever encountered, is a data structure that contains runtime information (e.g. a stack trace) to stand in for a compiler error where the compiler was not sufficiently capable of determining the fault at compile time. It couldn't possibly mean anything else in reason.
Of course, we're really talking about "exception handlers", not "exceptions".
> there's no try, no catch, and no throw, and no equivalent to any of those.
There can be in name and reasonable equivalency: https://go.dev/play/p/RrO1OrzIPNe I'm not sure what it buys you, though. You haven't functionally changed anything. For this reason, I'm not convinced by the signifaince of syntax.
Think about it. Go could easily provide syntax sugar that replaces `try { throw() } catch (err) {}` with `try(func() { throw() }).catch(func(err) {})`. That would truly satisfy your requirements in every way. But what, specially, in that simple search and replace operation says "exceptions" (meaning exception handlers)?
> C also has setjmp/longjmp which can be used in similar ways, but I wouldn't call that exception handling either.
Agreed. You could conceivably craft your own exceptions to carry through the use of setjmp/longjmp, but that wouldn't be a language feature. However, Go does have an exception structure as a built-in.
True to my word, I won't argue over the definition itself.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_handling_(programmin...
P.S.:
> There can be in name and reasonable equivalency: https://go.dev/play/p/RrO1OrzIPNe I'm not sure what it buys you, though. You haven't functionally changed anything. For this reason, I'm not convinced by the signifaince of syntax.
To me this is no different than implementing "exception handling" with setjmp/longjmp, just less work to do. For example, Go doesn't have pattern matching; implementing an equivalent feature with closures does not make this any less true.
What's that old adage? I think it goes something like "The wiki is always accurate—except when it’s about something you know personally." If you don't enough about the topic to discuss it yourself, what are you doing here?
> Also, obviously when we say "exceptions" in a programming language, we're definitely talking about "exception handling"
Not necessarily. Often it is important to discuss the data structure and not the control flow. Strictly, "exception" refers to either the broad concept of exceptional circumstances (i.e. programmer error) or the data structure to represent it. "Exception" being short for "exception handling" where context is clear is fine, but be sure context is clear if you want to go down that road – unless you like confusing others, I suppose.
> well the Go error object is an "exception"
You mean the error interface? That's not an exception. It's just a plain old interface; literally `type error interface { Error() string }`. In fact, the only reason it gained special keyword status is because it being part of the standard library, where it was originally defined in early versions, caused cyclical import headaches. If Go supported circular imports, it would be a standard library definition instead of a keyword today.
The underlying data structure produced when calling panic is an exception, though. It carries the typical payload you'd expect in an exception, like the stack trace.
Of course, errors and exceptions are conceptually very different. Errors are for things that happen in the environment – invalid input, network down, hard drive crash, etc. Exceptions are for programmer mistakes – faults that could have theoretically been detected at compile time if you had a sufficiently advanced compiler. Obviously you can overload exceptions to carry unexceptional information (as you can overload errors to carry exceptional information), and a pragmatist will from time to time, but that's not the intent for such a feature[1].
> To me this is no different than implementing "exception handling" with setjmp/longjmp, just less work to do.
Aside from the fact that there is actually an exception involved. Again, while you might be able to hand roll your own exception data structure in C, it does not provide it for you like Go does. If setjmp/longjmp were paired with an exception data structure of the box, it would reasonably considered exceptions, naturally.
However, the second bit was the real meat of that. A tiny bit of search and replace and you have a system that is effectively indistinguishable from exception handling in languages like Java, Javascript, etc. You haven't explained what about that search and replace, that does not introduce any other new language features or introduce any new concepts, turns what is not exceptions into exceptions.
[1] Java and its offspring's failed experiments in seeing if errors and exceptions could reasonably be considered the same thing excepted.
But you seem to want to avoid talking about it? Let's try one more time: What is it about dead-simple search and replace, without adding any other new features or technical concepts, that turns what is "not exceptions" into something that is "exceptions"? Because I don't understand the difference that makes.
Language decisions scoped try/catch are not incidental details.
Go already has that, of course: https://go.dev/play/p/RrO1OrzIPNe
> Not even when listing cons that wouldn't have been there with try-catch.
What would you hope to learn from it? The cons are why you're already not making use of the feature that has existed since the very first release (in most cases that is; there is certainly a time and place for everything — even the standard library uses it sometimes!). Is it that you find it necessary for a third-party to remind you of why you have made your choices? I posit that most developers have a functioning memory that sees that unnecessary.
> But of course that would hurt them and the community in so many levels that they don't want to admit...
You may not have thought this through...
You can put that in-band, with something like:
v := funcWithError()? err := {
return fmt.Errorf("lazy programmer wrapping: %w", err)
}
Or you can do some kind of magic to allow it to happen out of band:
// found somewhere else in the codebase
func wrapErr(err error) error {
if err == nil {
return nil
}
return fmt.Errorf("lazy programmer wrapping: %w", err)
}
v := funcWithError()?(wrapErr)