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Comment by ChemSpider | Hacker News Reader

Did you actually read the page you linked??? It supports exactly what I wrote. Just keep in mind that the latest salary data there is for 2022.

The postdoc salaries I quoted are for 2024, of course.

Source: https://www.research-in-bavaria.de/what-salary-does-a-postdo...

"Most doctoral positions and some postdoc positions will be categorized as TV-L 13, which can range from about €4630 to €6580 (gross monthly salary). The exact salary is determined by your years of experience."

-> €6000*12 -> 72K Euro, ~US$ 80K

And that is without including the various social benefits.

> The highest possible salary anyone in the university gets is 96k Euros.

That is wrong, too. But not the topic of my post.

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>Just keep in mind that the latest salary data there is for 2022.

Haha. This is NOT data, this is the current contract. It is exactly what you get paid. It is the exact salary you get paid there.

>Source: https://www.research-in-bavaria.de/what-salary-does-a-postdo...

Why don't you look at the document I linked which tells you exactly what people working in that university are earning. That is not a guess, not an estimate and it is not out of date it is literally exactly what they are getting paid next month.

Instead of talking about hypotheticals and ranges, why do you refuse to look at the document which talks about the exact salaries? This is very bizarre behavior.

>That is wrong, too. But not the topic of my post.

I literally linked you the literal document where it is literally written what the literal highest paid person will literally get paid in the literal next month. What evidence against this could you possibly have? Unless you have the bank statements of that person your evidence cannot possibly be better.

The link your parent posted is current. The Entgelttabelle there was last updated in 2022.

Also the PDF's (Tarifvertrag, Entgelttabelle) linked there are the authoritative source for this information - they are the legal document defining it.

We have 2025, not 2022. So it is certainly not current. Inflation is a thing! ;-)

My data (see above) is from the same source ("Tarifvertrag"), but from 2024.

I am really surprised that PhD/PostDocs earning more (or at least same) in EU than the US is controversial. I tought everyone knows that.

>We have 2025, not 2022. So it is certainly not current. Inflation is a thing! ;-)

Do you not understand that the document I linked is the up to date contract? If you think what I linked is getting "inflation adjusted" you are totally clueless about how you get paid under a Tarifvertrag in Germany.

The document contains the exact amount of the employee is going to get paid next month.

You are good with insulting, but weak on math.

Even with your 2022 data/source, I get a salary that is >=Harvard.

And if you look at the latest 2025 salaries the difference is even more striking and in favor of Germany:

https://www.jobs-beim-staat.de/tarif/tvoed-bund_e13

But according to you, how much does a German Postdoc earn per year, in US$?

First year 50,260.56 Euros at TV13 at the Humboldt University Berlin compared to Harvard's MINIMUM salary of $67,600. See https://postdoc.fas.harvard.edu/salarystipend-level

Given that taxes are much, much higher in Germany the difference is quite drastic.

Again I am NOT using a source for 2022, it is the exact contract in force for May 2025.

"it is the exact contract in force for May 2025." - No, it is not. That is your mistaken thinking.

In 2025, TV-L 13 starts with 4629€ a month and goes up to 6580€ (= 78K€+), depending on experience.

Indded, the raw tax difference is substantial. But the social benefits, health insurance, vacation days,... need to be considered for a complete comparison. But that was never the topic of discussion.

I demonstrated to you that the starting salary differs by 18k, at 1:1 exchange rate. I did this with up to date information that is valid RIGHT NOW.

>In 2025, TV-L 13 starts with 4629€ a month and goes up to 6580€ (= 78K€+), depending on experience

Wrong. You do not understand how TVs work. Look at the linked table it as the exact salary the employees get paid at the end of this month.

>depending on experience.

Wrong. Experience is totally irrelevant. It is years in that position.

You are completely delusional. As you have been told, even when evaluating favorably the EU job, the difference will be so substantial that it's hardly comparable.

You may think there are many advantages of the social system, but the thing is with the US you get to choose exactly how the surplus will be spent. If you want coverage similar to EU you can, it will cost you lots of money but you will still come out on top.

And that is before even considering that purchasing power/quality of life is better in the US at a given salary level.

The controversy is your egregious dismissal of a legal source that you have now edited out of your post.

So you are saying the average German Postdoc salary is NOT >= Harvard salary?

What numbers do you have in mind?

Unfounded provocation. Get lost, troll.

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