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Comment by jihadjihad | Hacker News Reader

So is it like tamari? Seems to be made from fermented soybean paste, which is how tamari is made too (byproduct of miso paste).

Most of the soy sauce you encounter in the US has wheat, while in Japan (and seemingly South Korea) there's no wheat added.

Personally once I switched to tamari I never went back to "regular" soy sauce, the flavor is quite a bit richer and more versatile in cooking, in my opinion.

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> Most of the soy sauce you encounter in the US has wheat, while in Japan (and seemingly South Korea) there's no wheat added.

This is incorrect with regards to Japan. Shoyu is made with wheat. Tamari is not. Their production process is different.

Kikkoman is the most popular brand in the West AND in Japan, which is a koikuchi shoyu, which is the "standard" shoyu type in Japan. It is made with wheat.

The Kikkoman gluten free variant is also labelled as tamari.

Yes, and Chinese "light soy" is also similar to shoyu.

For me I always have Kikkoman in the fridge (especially because thats what wife grew up with) as the staple soy sauce. I like to dabble in having 1-2 other variants in the fridge at once, but they can tend to have too strong a flavor for some peoples taste. Or certain variants are best with certain dishes, etc.

This is the first time I hear about keeping soy sauce in the fridge. Is this common?

I have feeling that I should do it. The difference between open bottle that have stayed outside and fresh bottle is pretty clear. Refrigeration would slow down any reactions and thus keep taste better longer.

Every soy sauce label I remember seeing has said, "Refrigerate after opening." I don't know why this seems to be rarely done (at least in the US).

Yeah I just follow food safety instructions on packaging

I keep sweet soy like kecap manis and 醬油膏 in the fridge because occasionally it can catch mold otherwise. I do the same with sweet vinegar like balsamic. However I think this depends a lot on how hot and humid your environment is. In cool and dry climates it's probably not necessary.

醬油膏 = soy sauce paste

It’s one of my favorites. I try to find ones without much additives and refrigerate after opening to keep it fresh.

I was under the impression that traditional Japanese soy sauce (shoyu, not tamari) also contains wheat (close to 50/50 ratio) - it's used to help start the fermentation.

It does, when it doesn't that's when you call it tamari.

Tamari is "low wheat" rather than specifically "no wheat". Many manufacturers (particularly when selling to Western markets) will simply take the extra steps to expand the market.

Eh, it depends what you mean by traditional. Ramen is "traditional" in japan, but it was invented in the early 1900s. Similarly, since wheat wasn't commonly imported into japan prior to the 1800s, most actually old tradition recipes didn't contain wheat either.

> Most of the soy sauce you encounter in the US has wheat, while in Japan (and seemingly South Korea) there's no wheat added.

My favourite jang is made from fermented wheat and soy - chunjang. Chunjang is the star ingredient in one of the most delicious noodle dishes ever conceived, Jjajangmyeon.

buldak ramen introduced me to jjajang. I stir fry 1 of them and one 2x spicy together with green and yellow onion, red pepper, garlic, ginger, and whatever leftover protein I have from the week. top with some type of Lao Gan Ma and there is basically no reason to ever order takeout

If other readers are unfamiliar with "Lao Gan Ma", it is a brand of spicy and fermented pastes from Mainland China. I highly recommend them. Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lao_Gan_Ma

Once I had to switch to tamari due to a celiac diagnosis, I found it was one of the few things that actually tastes better without gluten. I think most of the world would enjoy soy sauce made without wheat more if they tried it.

Also, most soy sauce in Japan absolutely has wheat unfortunately.

Almost all wheat based soy sauces has such a low gluten content that they can be seen as gluten free.

Would someone with gluten sensitivity agree with this statement?

This information comes from the Swedish food authority: https://www.livsmedelsverket.se/matvanor-halsa--miljo/sjukdo...

My kid with Celiak disease eat "normal" soy sauces and have passed all test so far.

Good question... I think they're pretty different in taste and how they're made (which is why they taste so different)

Miso and "dwen jang" taste very different because miso is usually mixed with soybean and rice, whereas dwen jang is all soybean. They are also aged differently. Miso is packed into more air tight container, whereas dwen jang is shaped into a block, hung outside to air dry.

The block to hang up outside for air drying is called 메주 (meju) which is form before made into 된장 (dwenjang). There is more process involved to make it into dwenjang. Actually from that meju we make daenjang and soy sauce.

Don't forget the larva which is apparently a sign of a good 메주. I wonder how many people can still put up with the smell of making it at home.

I really need to learn to make 된장찌개 at home. This thread reminded me how tasty it is.

I've really come to appreciate daenjang more than Japanese miso over time. It has funkier, earthier but arguably less refined taste than Japanese miso.

Same. Tamari seems to have a much richer flavor than soy sauce. I would recommend others try it a replacement.

Western tastes favor intense flavors, so tamari may provide better balance than standard (koikuchi) soy sauce in that sense, but in Japanese cooking, "richness" is not necessarily a desirable characteristic, and tamari would overwhelm many dishes when substituted for koikuchi in similar amounts. Reprocessed (sai-shikomi) soy sauce, made by fermenting soy sauce twice, is considered a middle ground between koikuchi and tamari in terms of richness and is popular for dipping. But there is also a relatively wide range of flavor within the koikuchi category, and the US-made Kikkoman sauce that many people are familiar with is not very flavorful.

    > Western tastes favor intense flavors

What a ridiculous generalisation. Much of French and Italian cuisine is subtle in its flavourings. What about Sichuan or Korean spicy food? Some of that stuff can knock your socks off the flavours are so strong. And don't get me started about Malaysian or Indonesian food.

That's why I expressed a generalization and not a universal statement. You don't have to prop up a strawman to express disagreement.

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