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Comment by paularmstrong | Hacker News Reader

High paying jobs? yes. Good jobs? no. The organizations are typically dysfunctional and all of the things that the original comment here lead to really poor working environments and burnout.

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Poor working environments? You mean the office is sometimes too noisy or too cold or the coffee runs out?

I would describe a poor office environment as an open one. Cubicles are much better, and offices a little better than that.

These are not just unproductive environments, they're unpleasant. Having to be "on" for 8 hours a day because you don't even get a vague idea of privacy is exhausting.

Have you ever worked in a factory or restaurant or construction job site? I understand that some office environments aren't great for knowledge work but complaints about poor working conditions are a bit overblown.

A bit overblown? I literally could not do my work in the working environment I was supposed to (open space) because of the constant noise from coworkers. That was at a time when ANC technology wasn't very good and I left for this and other reasons.

This. I quit a very high-paying job at a very well-known tech company because they shifted to an open office environment. It was not only exceedingly unpleasant, but it eliminated my ability to work.

I find that hard to believe. Some of the mechanical engineers that I know do much of their work out on factory floors that are constantly noisier than any office. And I guarantee that what they're doing is at least as complex and intellectually challenging as anything you've ever done.

I'm all for improved working conditions but some software developers are entirely too precious. What we do isn't special.

You sound exactly like a manager that would put everyone into a open space and then could not understand why the productivity goes down like a rock. Yeah, people told you and you chose to ignore them.

A lot of people substitute their own experiences and reality for that of the people they interact with.

“This coffee isn’t hot to me, so it can’t be hot to you.”

Yes, I've worked in a restaurant. It's a pretty good environment to be a restaurant worker. Probably not a good environment to be programming in.

Why are you gatekeeping what constitutes poor working conditions?

There are people all over the technology sector that suffer from various issues that make the “modern” office an absolutely unproductive, overwhelming shitshow.

You might also be frustrated if you’re asked to meet unreasonable goals in an environment where you can’t get anything done, at a company that doesn’t give you any options or agency over your work space.

It’s not the workplace suffering olympics. We don’t need to figure out whose cornering the market on bad working conditions to acknowledge that that issue spans industries.

True. But it might be worth it for a lot of developers to take less money for a company with real offices or work from home option.

Backbiting, nepotism, self-dealing.

This is every professional job, my friends outside of tech have the same complaints.

The difference is that tech acts like it doesn’t have this issue. Other industries openly acknowledge they practice this and so expectations are set accordingly.

Isn't that a lot better than really poor working environments, burnout, AND low pay?

Are these the only options in the table? Perhaps it’s ok for people to want better.

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