Are you equating conservatism with flat earth crowd?
How conservative was DOGE's effort to save money. The story was conservative but the actions were radical.
I wouldn't equate conservatism with the flat earth crowd. I would equate the current majority closer to flat earthers than Columbus.
This is snark but also genuine, so far in my life I've seen a lot of different things called conservative...
I would also say that honoring the status quo is a finer more nuanced definition. The status quo is not that bad. Understanding one's actions might affect the status quo I think is a central conservative value.
I'm not sure why you feel the notion of conservatism has a hierarchy of goals. I see it as a simple idea that can be applied to almost any effort. Like any tool it can be applied in detrimental ways.
I believe absolute opinions on conservatism probably miss a lot of nuance.
Finally I think that arguments that conservatism is dangerous are mostly based on the fact that many people are making bad decisions and they are paying lip service to conservatism.
I'll tell you what...you stand on the shoulders of people who literally instigated and fought for change, and certainly didn't fight or work to keep a status quo that still had so many problems.
> I'm not sure why you feel the notion of conservatism has a hierarchy of goals.
Where did you get that from?
> Finally I think that arguments that conservatism is dangerous are mostly based on the fact
Like it or lump it, in the US at least, it is linked to people that do have dangerous attitudes, not caring about climate change, arguing against socialized health care or welfare benefits, trying to take away rights from minorities...just a constant flood of immoral, uneducated hateful stuff that only ever hurts.
I think we disagree about some subtlety of how society builds on its efforts.
The hierarchy quote is actually about wredcoll comment.
I'm obviously a conservative person. That conservatism doesn't accept different variations for the same word. I don;'t accept the conservative has a special definition in the US.
All of the shmabolic things you mention as conservative failures are what I'm complaining about it. I don't see them as conservative values because they cost us all more money and waste resources. The examples you provide I don't accept as conservative.
This is maybe why we disagree.
Huh? The human race progresses because of the 10% that drag the other 90% out of the muck into a better future, screaming and resisting every step of the way.
> All of the shmabolic things you mention as conservative failures are what I'm complaining about it. I don't see them as conservative values because they cost us all more money and waste resources. The examples you provide I don't accept as conservative.
So defend conservatism. List some values you think you can defend. Not wishy washy abstract stuff, really practicable stuff you think should be implemented.
I don't feel I have been overly abstract or wishy washy. I think we are discussing abstract ideals.
Understanding proposed changes to a current working environment I consider a conservative value.
Curiosity about long term costs and effects of decisions I consider a conservative value.
Conservation of resources I consider conservative values.
I truly believe we won't come to a common understanding. I'm curious about your age as I wonder about our experiences. I was born in 1968.
> Curiosity about long term costs and effects of decisions I consider a conservative value.
> Conservation of resources I consider conservative values
Those sound like good things to me.
They also don't sound like anything a republican politician has advocated for during my life time.
If you want to split the hair of republican vs conservative you are, of course, free to do so, but I doubt a whole lot of other people will really understand what you mean.
I think there's a lot to be said for asking why something should be changed and what will happen when you do, chesteron's fence style, but it's all too easy for that attitude to mask a position that's not actually willing to change.
Gay marriage is a pretty easy example. You certainly can, and probably should, ask why change it, but the vast, vast, vast majority of the people actually asking that type of question have no actual intention, or perhaps even ability, to change their opinion based on the answer they receive.
[EDIT] Which is unsurprising since the whole flat earth deal requires some sort of vast lizard-person conspiracy or whatever, and that's the kind of thing Qanon is, too.