Comment by another_poster | Hacker News Reader

Comment by another_poster | Hacker News Reader

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I used to have similar concerns as you — how can anyone truly know what other people are like? Unless we’re doing research with the scientific method, we can only speculate unscientifically, right? Without science, what we say is just our belief, not established fact.

But how do you explain people who intuitively understand things? Mathematicians, for example, intuitively understand math. Psychologists and experienced authors intuitively understand people. We gain intuition through education and experience, which in turn improve our understanding and sensitivity towards the truth. Expert mathematicians, for example, _can_ have a good sense of whether a theorem is true before they prove it. And in general, people who possess scientific knowledge can intuitively know things.

I do agree with your intent, though — we need to possess humility about the accuracy of our beliefs. The author can’t factually know what other people feel and think without asking them.

But we also owe some deference to wisdom. Being wise is like being an expert darts players: you’re better able to throw darts into the bulls-eye than most people. If we develop a wisdom worth trusting, we should trust it.

But how do you know if you are gaining wisdom if you don't even know when you're wrong?

I don’t think the author had a chance to interview each person they observed to see if their worried were right. That does not mean that they could not validate their observations.

You look at patterns and note them. Over years you will see similar patterns, both in people you only observe once, as well as people you get to know better. The ones you get to know better are the ones where you validate your theories. I’m not explaining it very well, but it works. It’s kind of like a sort of sparse sampling or a very long-term Monte Carlo simulation in n-dimensions (that’s an allusion and not a strict explanation)

Anyone who has had to learn social skills/cues as an adult, with analytical faculties in place of a more intuitive understanding, can attest to these seemingly universal patterns. People are ultimately more predictable than they believe themselves to be, and there are clear signs of a rich (evolutionary?) history of habit formation over many generations that in a real sense define "the human condition". One should consider themselves privileged not to have been forced to spend their cognitive efforts on understanding these patterns rather than merely be socialized into them.

If we must talk about social interactions in terms of science experiments, repeated observations are exactly how one validates a hypothesis.

People-watch at enough weddings, your observations of wedding-goers will become more accurate.

I agree that repeated observation increases the confidence in a hypothesis.

But, only if it's a hypothesis that can be validated in such a way.

From OP

> By internal architecture, what I mean is, when someone talks to me, what I notice first are the supporting beams propping up their words: the cadence and tone and desire behind them. I hear if they are bored, fascinated, wanting validation or connection. I often feel like I can hear how much they like themselves.

The last part (how much they like themselves) is an interpretation or a causal speculation, and something very prone to confirmation bias.

Like, what kind of observed behavior would you make less confident in that?

The article is a mix of very good observations and some more speculative statements, which seems to trigger us, the HN commenter crowd :-)

Yeah a lot of those stood out like thorns to me cause I just don’t agree with her conclusions. Immediately set off some alarm bells i.e. that’s just, like, your opinion, man…

Feedback is better, but lack of confirmation didn't stop the Greeks from dreaming up a model of the atom...

From my own experience, with things to do with social interaction some of the most successful people forge on running purely on intuition, they don't burden their minds on things like worrying if their model of wisdom acquisition is deficient of a feedback loop

I have a friend who is a bit like the author here. He picks up on a lot of little things and seems to intuitively understand what those things mean.

For example, I invited him to a BBQ at my friend's parent's house. (He was my roommate at the time, and had met my other friend a few times so this was not a random thing)

He talked to my friend's mother for maybe 15 minutes at the BBQ. She is a cheerful and loopy sort of person, and that was exactly the sort of conversation they had. On the drive home he asked me, "that family has been through a lot of tragedy, haven't they?". Indeed, it would break your heart to hear about them.

Sounds more like cold reading. Find me a family that hasn't been through a lot of tragedy!

I mean, I guess it depends on what you mean by tragedy. On one hand people get old and die, and that's sad, but not tragic.

Burying a child is tragic.

But to answer your question, I would say most families have not suffered tragedy. Mine certainly hasn't.

It’s like the someone said recently.

If your psychologist asks you if you’ve ever thought about suicide: it is not being as in touch with humanity as you think to say; “Hasn’t everyone”.

In the sense of thinking about it as a serious option. No, not everyone has.

> Burying a child is tragic

Yes. This. And much more.

In my experience, it comes down to matching patterns.

Here's what I think likely happened: your friend talked to other people who went through tragedy. He noticed something common in their behavior. It can be something so subtle that it's invisible to most people, but your friend notices these kind of things. Then when he talked to the current person, he found the similar pattern.

Ah, but some people have more attitude for perceiving those patterns in the first place.

I imagine the author of this article is describing something along the lines of my friend's cognitive capabilities.

I believe that this comes from the exact opposite of what the author does. People like this can discard the irrelevant details, and find what can be put together to create a clear picture.

On key difference here is that those mathematician then go through the process of actually proving the theorem. Just having “an intuitive understanding” is never enough, no matter how many times you have been right before.

The author here does not go through that process at all. It just feels like saying: I watch people a lot so I feel like I know what I am talking about, I feel entitled to write a piece about it. Math people have those pieces peer reviewed and experimented upon before they are actually published.

Perhaps she talks to some people and learns something about their (self reported) life? I would imagine this is how these types of intuitions are formed?

> Psychologists and experienced authors intuitively understand people

I interacted with at least 7 psychotherapists (one of them is a relative) and a whole bunch of other specialists in the field. It took three decades and a push from my side for someone to even figure out that something about me was kind of strange.

Yes, experts can recognize patterns. But that has limits & biases, and tends to be unreliable for outliers. And when that person doesn't even check their results all bets are off.

I'm sorry to intrude, but this interests me very much. What was the thing that you wanted figured out about you that gave surch hard time for psychotherapists?

>Mathematicians, for example, intuitively understand math.

They can intuit all they want, and good for them if it makes them more efficient in their job. But at the end of the day, if you have to convince others of your intuitions you have to provide verifiable proof. Your intuition might help you overcome a hurdle when proving a theorem, but, still, prove it you must.

> Psychologists and experienced authors intuitively understand people.

You lost me here. This isn’t true.

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