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Comment by tomrod | Hacker News Reader

I tried this for awhile, but was dissatisfied. I found myself a constant consumer of intellectual material instead of being an engaged participant. Once I realized that, I set course to become more of a producer of useful things. That's led me to woodworking, to running a consultancy, to producing AI/ML for nonprofits, and to writing academic works. All in all, I enjoy life substantially.

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Years ago I realized that if I bluntly categorize the things I do with my free time into buckets of "productive" and "consumptive" it's the productive things that make me feel pretty great.

I think this is a common viewpoint, because no one wants to say "yeah, being a consumer makes me feel pretty great" publicly. But arguably most people fall into that camp. Even someone who lives an intellectually rich life.

It’s also not exclusive. Different phases of life yield different productivity levels.

Ah this is an important distinction! Let me clarify, and do please let me know if this fits with the intuition you're relating here. When I say "make me feel pretty great" I mean afterwards, not during. I absolutely feel great while eating junk food and watching trash (as I did last night!) but the morning after (read: right now) I feel like hot garbage.

I think I'm feling into a "type two fun" perspective and just doing a poor job of articulating it.

“Anyone who reads poetry to improve their mind will never improve their mind by reading poetry.” CS Lewis.

My very brief stint into woodworking and machining gave me a lifetime of looking at random objects from really close. Seeing how things are manufactured makes you look at every man-made object differently. It gives you a rare appreciation for craftsmanship and clever engineering. There are whole museum sections that have suddenly opened up to me.

I credit a few YouTube channels for creating the spark: The Engineer Guy, This Old Tony, AvE, Pask Makes, Xyla Foxlin to name a few.

I find consumer vs producer to be very interesting and useful distinction. Sometimes very enlightening and somewhat scary when applied to personal time spending.

Pairing production and consumption can be very satisfying. Some personal examples:

- Cooking a novel dish, then eating it

- Setting up a music server, then listening to music with it

- (With friends) Making a pen-and-paper game, then playing it

One might argue that everything we produce lends itself to some kind of consumption. Moreover, not all actions lead to tangible "products", but they can lead to useful results and experiences. Sports and games are an example.

Perhaps production tends towards consumption but not the opposite. If I make music I'll probably listen to it. But I can easily listen to music without making it.

And agree sports are an interesting example. It kind of fits my mental model of consumption in many ways: something you do that's primary effect transforms you. Watching TV, playing a game, etc. The effect being something chemical that is satisfying. I guess with sports or exercise the internal change is more physical (muscle, endurance, etc) vs chemical. Although I suppose you are acting on the world as well - you are scoring a point or advancing a position. It's just more ephemeral (ends when game ends) and arbitrary.

Im sure even just in terms of chemical reactions there is going to be a clean split between stuff like playing video games or watching TV vs. sports, building something, etc. Dopamine vs... ?

Absolutely agree!

I agree. Knowledge-seeking can become a defense or excuse not to take action. I think it can be enriching, particularly when young, but there's a balance in everything.

I've been trying to create/produce more but I'm stuck in the consumption mindset. I can't think of what to create. How did you decide what useful things to produce?

In my youth, I read many books, and I still have many unread ones on the shelf. But, eventually, realized that, you only understand what you can create (to paraphrase feynman), and also that, what it means to be curious is to start from a burning problem or itch which differs for each one of us based on something deeper in our psyche.

Productive activities put us often into uncomfortable mental places which spurs growth of some kind - the discomfort is difficult to embrace however, which is why we resist it. In contrast, the consumptive activity comes out of a comfortable mental place and is embraced easily.

So, a question I ask myself is: what problems am i passionate about, and what am i doing (productively) about them. If I dont feel any passion, then perhaps, something is amiss (I am not communicating with my soul so-to-speak), and if I am not doing anything about them, then I need to get my ass moving and embrace the discomfort.

Do you need something? Make it - it doesn't matter what. Quality doesn't even matter, if the shoes you make turn out well you wear them, if not well go to the store and buy some. If you decide you like making shoes then make some more. If you decide it isn't fun then find something else (and come back again if you later change your mind).

See someone else make something, try to do it yourself. Sometimes you get something nice, sometimes you have fun and then throw away the worthless object.

There are a few danger signs to watch out for. Don't get caught up in learning how - you can spend the rest of your life watching "how to make a guitar" videos and never build anything. You can spend a lot of money on tools, or think you cannot do something for lack of tools - for the first one figure out how to use minimal tools (not zero!) so you don't get invested in a hobby you turn out not to enjoy - the big bucks should be only after you are sure the hobby and the tool is for you. You can start with a project too complex - start with small projects you can get done - take on the complex ones only after you are sure this hobby is for you.

Question for you: does creating mean building something? Do you count playing music as creating? What about art? What about dancing? There is no right answer to these questions except whatever you decide.

I divide my time into 4 sets.

Based on an area of interest I:

1. Find interesting people or projects that are interesting (discovery)

2. Identify the things I don't know how to do yet, or where I don't have enough information (information consumption with plan as output)

3. Execute on the plan (creation and delivery)

4. Evaluate on the outcomes -- modified ikigai is the framework I use: (1) does the world need it? (2) what is the world willing to pay for it? (3) did I enjoy it? (4) could I be good at it

Consumption is addictive - even or all the more so when we feel we are consuming worthwhile stuff (see the various major reading projects here). A useful first step is awareness of the time spent on the various time sinks: we have limited time and sinking all that available time in one thing kills that. So then, diversification away from the worst bits. Even if temporarily that means still consuming.

A second step is understanding the taste vs skill gap: unless what you produce is related to your job or training, when you start creating things your skill is poor (and your equipment probably not adapted) and it's hard to be satisfied with the quality of what you are creating. You can create something related to your job skills, or you can recognize that skill gap is a normal thing and persevere. Some classes though are excellent at carrying someone a long way in a short time.

> Consumption is addictive

So is production! Even more so, I guess.

Would love to hear more! We rarely hear stories of people "stuck" on the making/ creative side. Exciting yes - but rarely addictive in the sense of taking so much time that the rest suffers?

It's common enough that there's a well-known term for it: workaholic.

For work work, I don't think this is what we were talking about.

But yes, not unfair, one example then might be some free software maintainers.

Typically, production requires some consumption. At a base level, however, the outcomes can be guided, satisfying my ego and leaving my mark on the universe.

There are a lot of things, but one warning I can give is try to avoid perfectionism.

Cook some novel dish, or maybe just significantly modify your regular one with some spices. Write a blog post. Sit and think about some library you wanted to write, but didn't have time. Even writing a draft with API is a pretty good example of producing.

You can fix things by yourself. E.g. service your bike, maybe reorganize your workspace, stuff like that.

Just start small and think about things which bother you and what you can do about it.

Here are some suggestions: Writing, music creation, woodworking, drawing, painting, photography, podcasting, gardening, cooking, DIY home projects, chess, sports

>I can't think of what to create. How did you decide what useful things to produce?

What you like to consume.

this. folks just end up being smarmy snobs about what is universal truth when the goal should be leveraging this knowledge to produce new things/ideas

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