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Comment by sceptic123 | Hacker News Reader

> One day I was late for a party and everyone was high when I arrived and I realized that I simply can't stand them because everything they said was the lowest IQ stuff I ever heard and they were pretending that its creative.

And that never happened with alcohol?

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It happens when someone is very drunk. People socializing with alcohol are still a nice company to people who don't drink.

The nice thing about alcohol is the dynamic range of its effects. The bad stuff start after the "tipsy" stage and even after that there's quite a bit of way to go until things become a problem.

I would be surprised if the people who don't drink agreed with you here. And let's make sure we ignore the links between alcohol use and violence here too.

As a teetotaller, I'd say that the tipping point is usually around the third drink. I don't know about US drinking culture, but here in the UK that really isn't a lot. Beyond that point, people rapidly lose the ability to have a conversation and slide into a kind of output-only mode. There's a certain charm to that kind of free association, but as a sober person you're more of an audience member than a participant. I think anyone who works in hospitality can vouch for the fact that most drinkers become obviously cognitively impaired much sooner than they realise.

Stoned people might be lethargic and dull, but at least they're more reliably amiable than drunk people. Some people start becoming nasty after only a couple drinks - no fists being thrown, just casually cruel things that they'd never dream of saying while sober, trivial disagreements escalated into petty and personal shouting matches. You don't have to be particularly intoxicated to start saying things that your sober self would be utterly ashamed of; your saving grace is the fact that most of the people around you aren't really parsing or retaining what you're saying.

I relate to this experience (not teetotaler but slow starter/drinker and I watch my consumption). I especially relate to the petty/cruel observations, particularly in the context of big family meals/events.

I think it's one of the reason people "like" alcohol, it gives them both the courage and an excuse to say whatever they want/feel.

But you seem to be making excuses/explanation for this, I don't agree, what people become under the influence of alcohol is who they truly are, without the mask and restraints. If someone becomes petty/cruel/violent or whatever, you just learned that they cannot be trusted and are a bad person, no needs to explain away with alcohol influence.

In general, drugs amplify or make obvious who peoples are, they don't radically change them contrary to what some like to pretend.

Is that really true? I observe that certain drugs impact all personalities in similar ways, like cocaine making people paranoid. If you have homeless near you like most California, you spot opioid or meth drug behaviors instantly because they’re quite distinct. Alcohol does impair judgement, which predictably means less self monitoring and that may explain what you’ve noticed, that jerks get jerkier while nice guys may just get nicer on alcohol.

They key word was "radically". Of course, every drug has a typical and general impact on how people behave and you can even notice it in physical movement (everybody expects any drunk person to have pretty bad motor control). But this is just making my point even more, you need to observe the differences between individual behaviors under the influence, not just the difference between their behavior sober and under influence. A drug will amplify certain key aspects of cognition/movement in the same way for everyone, someone who displays extreme specific behavior is just more noticeable because the amplification makes it very obvious, but it was always there in the first place.

I have never heard about cocaine making people paranoid but it is just something that every drug user displays at some point (because of the fear of being found out, judged and maybe having trouble with the police). Even though I am an extremely chill person, I have found myself to be a bit paranoid under the influence of cannabis at times.

And I have a question for you: is it the drug that makes people paranoid or is it that people who are inclined to paranoid behavior are more likely to use drugs, which amplify the behavior.

People regularly using drugs have issues that push them to this abuse, it's not really the drug that are the problem, the root of the issue is really in the people and their personnality/character.

Definitely don't abuse alcohol, that's very bad for you and the society. Learn how to drink properly

Why doesn't that same thing apply to recreational drug use? And the argument for legalisation is that it makes that use much safer.

I agree, maybe its possible to create a healthy weed culture. I've never seen one but maybe in some places they figured it out. Alcohol is similar, in some cultures the dominant drinking culture is very damaging one.

Can you expand on this comment?

When you say that you've never seen one do you mean that you've seen many weed cultures but never a healthy one?

What makes the ones that you've seen unhealthy?

>Learn how to drink properly

~10% of the population simply cannot.

I'd argue it's a lot higher of a percentage in places like here in Wisconsin.

Actually, weed can be light too. I am always surprised at the doses people who smoke weed get into their head. I personally not a big fan of the effects but a light touch can be very nice, especially for activities that don't mobilize such as sex or watching a movie.

Having had my share of experiences in my 20s going out sober with both drunk and stoned friends I can attest that tipsy people are usually a lot more coherent than the comparably stoned ones.

What's comparable to tipsy for marijuana though? Seems like the relative strengths of the two drugs are being compared here rather than the effects on personality.

Unless the people who are "tipsy" from weed tell it to you, you will never be able to detect it.

People who are drunk say things that are dumb. People who are stoned say things that are dumb, and believe their dumb thoughts are profound. One of these behaviors is a lot more irritating than the other.

I personally thought he was sarcastic.

Your user name was very relevant for that comment. Lol.

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