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Comment by zefhous | Hacker News Reader

Honest question. If it would make your fiancé's family happy, would you claim allegiance to Hitler and condone his actions "in name only"?

Do you really think that it's okay to condone the subjugation or murder of all people that won't convert to Islam, and then say that you didn't really believe the words you said?

Claiming that you are a Muslim is saying that you support and agree with Islamic doctrine and everything that comes with it. I'm not here to argue about what Muslims believe, but you should understand what you are condoning and take it seriously.

When you are willing to say things that you don't believe, you make your words meaningless.

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Do you really think that it's okay to condone the subjugation or murder of all people that won't convert to Islam, and then say that you didn't really believe the words you said?

I don't believe that the "subjugation and murder of all people that won't convert to Islam" is in fact a central tenet of "Islamic doctrine". Certainly not in any formal sense, and even the more negative interpretations of Islamic history indicate that forced conversion was rare - despite the fact that subjugation certainly occurred.

While it is true that Islamic history is marred by conflict, I would posit that 1) un-provoked conflict is not specifically called for in Muslim religious texts and 2) even in the case of conflict, forced religious conversion is not indicated in any fashion nor carried out in practice.

If either of the above points are incorrect, please point me towards an appropriate source indicating otherwise.

Indeed, I believe it is a central tenet of Islam. Whether most Muslims believe it or not is another matter (most don't).

In short, this verse from the Quran sums it up pretty well (http://quran.com/9/5):

"And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

This shows that Islam calls for death of non-believers or it requires conversion — "repent, establish prayer, zakah (basically Islamic tax)". I said subjugation because the Quran does allow for non-believers to live as long as they are subdued and pay the tax (http://quran.com/9/29).

If any would argue that this is not relevant, you must first understand the Islamic doctrine of abrogation. This surah was chronologically the second-to-last surah, and therefore it wins in any dispute or contradictory scripture.

Again, most Muslims don't believe this. But according to Islamic law what I said holds firm.

The context of the verse show the command was for a specific situation when there was a breach of a treaty (http://quran.com/9/1-11). The very next verse commands the aid for those non-believers who seek protection.

Further explanation in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFC8uQfJgDo

It's a shame you're not here to argue about what Muslims believe because you obviously are extremely confused in that respect.

To me, this comment is more proof that muslims are the new gooks.

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