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Comment by gruez | Hacker News Reader

I'd take that with a grain of salt. I've went through the process to cancel an uber one trial recently, and I would say it's not anywhere near "23 screens". Maybe the user in question got unlucky and got hit with all the A/B trials, and they're being super generous with what counts as a "screen", but the process was relatively painless.

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Might be because of your location. Some governments like California have regulated these types of things with a law that says you must be allowed to cancel in the same manner you signed up.

I mean, in my case, I was literally forbidden from canceling. I got a screen saying I couldn’t cancel within 24 hours after the monthly renewal.

Very clearly intended to combat “oh shit I need to cancel that one” when the charge shows up in hopes you forget again.

Pretty sure that’s straight up illegal in many jurisdictions

Uber had a formal program in place, built into their software, to deny ride requests they suspected came from government and regulatory officials, in cities where they were violating transport regulations [0]. This isn't their first rodeo.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/03/uber-secr...

Uber is clever enough to know which jurisdictions and make it as annoying as as likely legally enforceable by state..

I'm trying to play Devil's Advocate, but I literally can't think of another reason they would do this.

I can, I’ve written a billing system before (unfortunately). There’s a lot of annoying math/edge cases and systems to sync between.

While I never implemented a restriction like this, it would have prevented a lot of weird bugs/customer support issues and kept the underlying code much simpler.

(Annoying math = time zones, prorations, discounts, billing cycle anchors, etc. see the “falsehoods programmers believe about X” series)

(Systems to sync between = internal DBs, billing APIs, payment processors, etc.)

I mean sure, I get it, but companies like Uber leave edge cases like that out when it hurts them (customers cancelling) but move heaven & earth to remove them when it helps them (I bet its easy to re-join within 24 hours of cancelling?).

What was the process?

In my mind it should be something like 3 or 4 screens/prompts max.

Account (1) -> Cancel (2) -> Are you sure (3) -> Why did you cancel (4).

I’ve literally experienced (not with Uber, probably around 2010):

1: Account

2: Cancel

3: Call this number.

4: Call number.

5: Welcome to Customer Service press… … …press 9 to cancel.

6: We need to confirm who you are. Give birth date, etc.

7: Are you sure?

8: Agent gets on the line.

9: Why do you want to cancel?

10: We are offering you a discount to continue and not cancel, how about that?

11: Cancel

12: Are you sure again? (This time for real)

13: Cancelled, but we are offering you a BIGGER discou… this is when I hang up.

I was part of a faith-based health sharing program for a few years. When it came time to cancel my membership, I had to call in and speak with a rep. I got past several rounds of retention attempts and succeeded in cancelling. The rep offered to pray for me before we ended the call and asked if I had any prayer requests. I mentioned something about getting over a bad cold and she said, “you know, one of the benefits that we offer—“

I felt a little bit bad about hanging up but mostly I was just mad.

Last time I tried to cancel a service (mobile phone, Three, in the UK) they offered me the service for 5£ (it's normally 20£ or more).

I should (pretend to) cancel more often!

This actually works reliably with quite a few companies, especially large ones with low marginal cost services. They will often have a standard script where they will offer anyone calling to cancel a large discount for 3-12 months. People can, and many do, call back at the end of each promo period to say they're cancelling and refresh the discounted rate.

> I should (pretend to) cancel more often!

I used to do this with the cable company but they seem to have gotten wise to it. Last time I tried in 2020 they basically told me to pound sand.

Fortunately I got fiber now and got to tell them to pound sand instead.

Seems like a good job for a bot…

>3: Call this number.

For Uber? In the handful of times I've canceled uber one trials I've never seen this. It's always through the app. Not even the FTC complaint alleges this.

Are you in Cali? They have a state law that says "if you can sign up online you have to be able to cancel online".

I ran into this with a NYTimes subscription I tried to cancel. They detected I wasn't in a state with such protections and removed the cancellation options while not providing a way to cancel. Made things real hard to shutdown.

Presumably they're specifically referring to uber rather than the broader conversation about dark patterns in canceling. I, too, remember how hard it was to cancel ZipCar—I think I just ended up closing the credit account it was backed by because I couldn't successfully navigate the labyrinth of phone-based customer support to cancel.

I'm saying in general. Dark patterns in general get more ridiculous than most people can imagine.

The complaint has some screenshots starting at page 15, which I think is representative of the cancellation process I went through. If you're being super generous (ie. start counting from you first launched the app, and also scrolling down as a "screen"), I can count 9-10 screens. I'm not sure how you can get 23.

Annoying, but doable. The biggest issue is the "you can't cancel within 48 hours" screen which is BS.

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