Hacker News Reader

Comment by legitster | Hacker News Reader

> The law makes it a misdemeanor for undocumented immigrants over age 18 to “knowingly” enter Florida “after entering the United States by eluding or avoiding examination or inspection by immigration officers.”

A good reminder that over 60% of "undocumented immigrants" in the US are here because they overstayed Visas (more likely their Visa extensions were denied). NOT because they entered the country illegally.

However, the enforcement of these laws is following the "guilty until proven innocent" logic. Arrest people who look hispanic and deny them basic legal rights until they prove their citizenship. The fact that citizens are caught up in this should not be a surprise since we are witnessing the fall of due process.

View on HN

I have seen multiple people bring up the distinction of overstayed Visas, but I don't understand the significance of it. A travel visa is a conditional authorization to a foreigner that allows them to enter and remain within a country. It is just as important during entering as staying.

The Florida only talks about entering so I can understand the distinction there.

Should people without a valid visa not be considered as illegal immigration?

Overstaying is a civil infraction according to current law while illegal entry is a misdemeanor. The distinction is that overstaying a visa is not a crime, so they are not "criminal illegal aliens", despite it being convenient for the administration to claim so.

Interesting to learn a bit about US law. I did not know that things like traffic violations did not count as a crime. It make some sense that crime is that which carries the risk of jail, while everything else is then a civil infraction. Since overstayed visa only can result in fines, deportation, and bans/restrictions from future visiting of the US, it would then count as a civil infraction.

Naturally, it is still illegal to break the law, even if the law do not carry the risk of jail time, so the correct name would be illegal immigration when overstaying a visa.

Is resisting deportation a crime similar to resisting arrest, which then carry the risk of jail time?

> Should people without a valid visa not be considered as illegal immigration?

Yes. But the problem is the rhetoric today is that being an "illegal immigrant" is tantamount to being a rapist, gang member, murderer, or drug dealer.

Therefore people feel justified in depriving them of their rights. Which of course is a very bad thing, but some people feel intuitively that criminals deserve no rights whatsoever to due process. People are now conflating providing due process to illegal immigrants with supporting rape and murder.

So that's why it's very important to point out that when someone is as "illegal immigrant" the image you should not have in your mind is a gangbanger.

That 60% figure would have to depend on a unknown denominator so I dont understand how it would be said so authoritatively. 60% of known undocumented immigrants is the best it could be.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com