U.S.-born man from Georgia held for ICE under Florida's new anti-immigration law
georgiarecorder.com
georgiarecorder.com
Yeah. IIRC, that just means he can't pass his citizenship down to his foreign born children: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-lega...:
> The U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or its territories for five years before the child’s birth. At least two of these years must be after age 14.
What immediately drops out of them is that kids of diplomats must return physically to the US for 5 years to be able to pass on their citizenship to their progeny.
But then you need to close the loopholes around people who clearly haven't renounced citizenship and don't want to but still find themselves pregnant in foreign countries such that they don't need to make emergency trips back to the homeland. And that gets a little complicated because you need to distinguish them from actual expatriots in a fair way.
Even if you don’t have confirmation and proof that you are a citizen (eg by having a US passport), you are still bound by rules if you happen to be a citizen anyways (eg you have to file/pay US taxes). So a lot of kids find out later in life that they are actually natural born US citizens and have been evading US taxes illegally.
"You owe us money because of arcane rules" is a bad thing.
Doesn’t that violate the 14th amendment? Equal protection and all that?
Supreme Court to Debate Birthright Citizenship Case.
Because the notion that the 14 amendment was supposed to be retroactive only is definitely not captured in some of those quotes here by the senators who debated it:
Why? I think that's the historical standard. True maternity has always been easy to establish, but paternity had to rely on legal institutions and custom.
"For alongside our famous individualism, there's another ingredient in the American Saga: A belief that we're all connected as one people [...] If there's an Arab-American family being rounded up, without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens MY civil liberties [too]. It is that fundamental belief. I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper, that makes this country work."
There was a time when such ideals mattered. That ended about a decade ago. Today we do not believe that we are connected as a people, and that my civil liberties must be protected at all costs (so long as they're your costs).
What exactly did Obama do to traumatize you? Be not white?
The MAGAs responded to the "sins of the fathers" narrative by accepting and celebrating their identity. Unintended consequences.
This "traumatizing media" effect certainly applies to the left, too, and I think social media is the common accelerant.
Half of a nation, at best. Many of us still hold Obama in deep regard as one of the best presidents in modern history.
A good reminder that over 60% of "undocumented immigrants" in the US are here because they overstayed Visas (more likely their Visa extensions were denied). NOT because they entered the country illegally.
However, the enforcement of these laws is following the "guilty until proven innocent" logic. Arrest people who look hispanic and deny them basic legal rights until they prove their citizenship. The fact that citizens are caught up in this should not be a surprise since we are witnessing the fall of due process.
The Florida only talks about entering so I can understand the distinction there.
Should people without a valid visa not be considered as illegal immigration?
Naturally, it is still illegal to break the law, even if the law do not carry the risk of jail time, so the correct name would be illegal immigration when overstaying a visa.
Is resisting deportation a crime similar to resisting arrest, which then carry the risk of jail time?
Yes. But the problem is the rhetoric today is that being an "illegal immigrant" is tantamount to being a rapist, gang member, murderer, or drug dealer.
Therefore people feel justified in depriving them of their rights. Which of course is a very bad thing, but some people feel intuitively that criminals deserve no rights whatsoever to due process. People are now conflating providing due process to illegal immigrants with supporting rape and murder.
So that's why it's very important to point out that when someone is as "illegal immigrant" the image you should not have in your mind is a gangbanger.
But now I'm a little concerned this was all for nothing. If ICE is going to start deporting US citizens, then I really can't really feel safe. Ever.
I am so god damn tired of this.
Worse yet, Trump and his clique have already openly talked about denaturalization and threatened to apply it to political opponents, so it's not idle speculation either.
as a minority who was born in this country, I've had plenty of people tell me not to worry because I'm a citizen. These kinds of things are going to happen more and more because there is a bureaucracy being created to enable this. I've had way too many conversations when he first started talking about this stuff. He was
1. "only going after violent criminals"
2. "only going after criminals"
3. "anyone here 'illegally' is. criminal"
Now we have a hot mic about where he talks about sending out "home growns" to Auschwitz 2.0 down in el salvador.
I'll say it bluntly... I'm scared.
I'm personally waiting to get my passport renewed and then I'm bouncing out of here. The writing is on the wall. Its not safe here in America.
2019: US-Born Marine Veteran Detained By ICE Was Carrying His US Passport When He Was Arrested²
¹ https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/01/540903038...
² https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/us-born-ma...
I've been detained for a few hours at the border due to a paperwork fuckup. It happens. This is... substantially worse than that.
According to the “justice” minister of El Salvador, the only way out of that prison is in a coffin. What has happened here should be a five alarm emergency for every person in America. When the president can make you disappear, you are now living in Chile in 1973.
We have incurred an unbelievable amount of cultural debt and now the bill is coming due.
Now picture how this would work out with this admin...
The guy is also now sipping margaritas in a restaurant with Senator Van Hollen as was clearly seen in the Senators own post just some hours ago.
The only alarm emergency is the hand-wringing hysteria.
whatever allegations against him are irrelevant. This is a FREE country whole society is predicated on rule of law. you cannot have liberty and law & order without DUE Process. That he didn't get that is the issue REGARDLESS of his citizenship status or prior crimes.
Its not complicated
If you are talking about rule of law and "due process", you must honestly bow and congratulate the now effective immigration law-enforcement. Finally "due process" is being followed, after 4 years of being asleep at the wheel, not enforcing federal law, deliberately breaking formal oaths of service and mockingly lying to Congress under oath.
Elizabeth Kessler - the immigration judge declared in charge of his case declared that this man's release in the USA would endanger the public since "evidence shows that he is a verified member of MS-13.". Hell, even an appeals court later affirmed the judge's decision.
A violent gang member was deported to his nation of origin following the ruling made by an immigration judge and even subsequent appeal. The executive branch of the US government then performed according to mandate and deported him accordingly.
Due process was followed.
Its not complicated.
a judge put him on a DO NOT DEPORT order. whatever his means of initially entering the united states was, he obtained. LEGAL status.
> "evidence shows that he is a verified member of MS-13."
was there a TRIAL where this "evidence" was presented and deliberated? until that happens, I can't support incarcerating this man, to say nothing of sending him to a foreign gulag.
> Finally "due process" is being followed, after 4 years of being asleep at the wheel
No, the due process in place was a system by which someone who is here illegally could gain legal status. thats what harm reduction looks like. The due process you're talking about would have had him deported to another country. Not sent to a death camp. There was no legislation for sending people to a life sentence for merely being associated with ms 13.
> Its not complicated.
you're right, its not. Yet you're really not gettin this.
Let's not muddy the waters. The only crime Garcia committed was entering the US at 16 years old to flee a gang in El Salvador. Garcia has never been charged or convicted for any crimes in any country [1].
> Elizabeth Kessler - the immigration judge declared in charge of his case declared that this man's release in the USA would endanger the public since "evidence shows that he is a verified member of MS-13.". Hell, even an appeals court later affirmed the judge's decision.
And that judge's "evidence" contradicted by the DOJ [1][2]:
>> The GFIS explained that the only reason to believe Plaintiff Abrego Garcia was a gang member was that he was wearing a Chicago Bulls hat and a hoodie; and that a confidential informant advised that he was an active member of MS-13 with the Westerns clique. ...
>> According to the Department of Justice and the Suffolk County District Attorney’s Office, the “Westerns” clique operates in Brentwood, Long Island, in New York, a state that Plaintiff Abrego Garcia has never lived in.
> Due process was followed.
> Its not complicated.
It's very complicated, except for the fact that due process was not followed. Garcia had a protective order specifically against being sent to El Salvador [1]:
> He argued, as the government has since admitted, that his removal was illegal because an immigration judge had granted him “withholding of removal” to El Salvador due to his “well-founded fear of future persecution” there from a violent gang known as Barrio 18.
And on the matter of appeals courts, a 4th Circuit Court of Appeals judge (J. Harvie Wilkinson III, appointed by Reagan) who in the past ruled in favor of sending an American citizen to Guantanamo with no charges has decided that Garcia was incorrectly removed to El Salvador and that the Trump administration is defying the Supreme Court order to facilitate his return [3].
[1] https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/abrego-garcia-and-ms-13...
[2] https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.578...
[3] https://www.techdirt.com/2025/04/18/this-should-be-shocking-...
Those "margaritas" appear to have been staged by Bukele [1].
> "When I first sat down with Kilmar, there were just glasses of water on the table," Van Hollen explained. "Then, someone from the Salvadoran government came over and placed two glasses with ice and sugar—or salt—on the rims, clearly staged to look like margaritas."
> "If you look at the one they put in front of Kilmar, it actually had a little less liquid," Van Hollen said. "To try to make it look, I assume, like he drank out of it."
...
> Van Hollen noted that drinking a salt or sugar-rimmed glass would leave a gap. But on the photos shared by Bukele, there is no gap—evidence, he said, that neither he nor Abrego García touched the alleged margaritas.
[1] https://www.latintimes.com/senator-who-visited-abrego-garcia...
Appears your prediction was completely correct. No talking about the US government in a potentially negative way on the orange site, that's political.
Do you dine at the laundromat or wash your dishes at the barbershop?
There is clear pattern of what is flagged and what is not with very clear political bias.
> There is clear pattern of what is flagged and what is not with very clear political bias.
Consider the possibility that your biases about what is "worth discussing" are leading you to conclude there's a political bias in what gets flagged even though the flagging is very consistent with the site's stated guidelines.
If anything, that the US is going full Gestapo against that specific demographic is very much on topic here.
You can go cry to the powers that be if you want.
If ICE trumps state courts on matters where it clearly lacks jurisdiction, ICE needs to be shut down entirely.
Incidentally, the position of the current administration is that they should have been able to, last night, send him to serve an indefinite sentence in an El Salvadoran torture prison without ever seeing a judge.
_this_ part doesn't work. Not "nothing works anymore". Perhaps there is a special court/system/subsystem that has authority for these cases. Just like Military has its own courts, and they don't try civilians, perhaps for such cases there is a "migration court" (or something-something...)
Unless there isn't in which case, damn those ICE folks are cold!!
Additionally, the current position of the US government is that they should have been able to put this person it a torture prison in El Salvador without him ever seeing a judge.
To give you one example of how bad it already was before Trump, these are the same courts where 3-year old children who don't know English were required to argue their case before the judge by themselves, without a lawyer: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/children-immigration-court...
So it was already a sham as far as due process go. But now the executive says that they aren't obligated to give people a hearing at all.
And anyone working for ICE is a willing enforcer for this system. They should be treated accordingly.
That was during Trump's first term. Going in to this, we already saw how bad he was, so we should have expected worse this time. That's part of the reason this second term has a depravity multiplier. We knew, and chose him anyway.
Even ICE’s website says this:
> Immigration detainers are only requests. They don’t impose any obligations on law enforcement agencies https://www.ice.gov/immigration-detainers#:~:text=Immigratio...
In Massachusetts where I live, the courts flat out ignore them and release individuals who are not accused of any crime, because:
> Massachusetts law provides no authority for court officers to arrest and hold an individual because of a federal immigration detainer
https://www.mass.gov/decision/lunn-v-commonwealth
Otherwise… I have no idea why the judge would just cave to the prosecutor’s argument like that.
A lot of judges in lower courts just aren't that good... the best legal minds gravitate to the top of the system, the judges at the lower tiers are very much a mixed bag – some brilliant, some incompetent, others who've lost all passion for their job and are just doing the bare minimum to avoid removal...
He was charged with a DUI (not even an ICE matter) other than that his crime seems to be that he doesn't speak English and lived in Mexico most of his life?
Also... shouldn't you be assumed to be a citizen (e.g. innocent) unless proven otherwise? Have we turned in to Nazi Germany (Papers please...)
Did they pass an executive order voiding birth right citizenship and I missed it? I know they were trying to...
Let me say that again another way: ICE cannot simply do whatever it wants to whoever it wants.
This is akin to giving the Department of Education comprehensive arrest powers related to pickleball games anywhere in the country.
ICE needs to be reined in, full stop.
E.g. https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-ice-detain... from back in 2017.
That is to say, this is mostly a story about ICE doing what ICE has always done, getting attention because of other prominent cases. Deservedly! Because ICE is a pretty awful institution in practice.
It's literally the first sentence of the article:
held in the Leon County Jail Thursday, charged with illegally entering Florida as an “unauthorized alien”
Kinda ridiculous that he was charged in the first place. I'm not sure what the basis for that was, maybe one of the people he was in the car with was in the country illegally and they just carelessly charged everyone without checking? I expect it'll be cleared up quickly and he'll be released in another day or two, just as it was with the drunk driving case in Georgia he was previously arrested for.